My Lords—

My Lords—

I knew I would do that. I am sorry. I will not refer to the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy.

I knew I would do that. I am sorry. I will not refer to the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy.

My Lords, could I make it clear to noble Lords that, in the best legislatures that have implemented similar legislation to this one—and I am thinking of Oregon, the State of Washington and so on—assisted dying is a small part, a very tiny part, of a good palliative care service,...

My Lords, could I make it clear to noble Lords that, in the best legislatures that have implemented similar legislation to this one—and I am thinking of Oregon, the State of Washington and so on—assisted dying is a small part, a very tiny part, of a good palliative care service,...

I am pleased that I gave time for the noble Baroness to talk, given that she thinks all of this is nitpicking. I remind the House that is what she said about the work we are doing. The fact is—

I am pleased that I gave time for the noble Baroness to talk, given that she thinks all of this is nitpicking. I remind the House that is what she said about the work we are doing. The fact is—

I am in a total muddle about what the noble Lord, Lord Deben, is saying. I think he is trying to say that Wales should decide on implementation. The Bill says:

“The Welsh Ministers may by regulations make provision about voluntary assisted dying services in Wales”.

We are giving the Welsh Ministers...

I am in a total muddle about what the noble Lord, Lord Deben, is saying. I think he is trying to say that Wales should decide on implementation. The Bill says:

“The Welsh Ministers may by regulations make provision about voluntary assisted dying services in Wales”.

We are giving the Welsh Ministers...

What I am saying is very simple: the proposers of this Bill have not properly taken into account the particularities that the Welsh have put forward so nobly and well by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith. I never hear from the proposers of this Bill any comprehension or understanding that...

What I am saying is very simple: the proposers of this Bill have not properly taken into account the particularities that the Welsh have put forward so nobly and well by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith. I never hear from the proposers of this Bill any comprehension or understanding that...

My Lords, I would like to point out that my noble and learned friend Lord Falconer has in fact tabled amendments and they have not yet been debated because we have not reached them in the Marshalled List. With regard to the very interesting and important discussion about Wales, many...

My Lords, I would like to point out that my noble and learned friend Lord Falconer has in fact tabled amendments and they have not yet been debated because we have not reached them in the Marshalled List. With regard to the very interesting and important discussion about Wales, many...

My Lords, as a former member of another place who represented 2,900 square miles of Wales, I have the feeling that we are getting into a horrible conceptual muddle in this debate. I feel the phrase “horses and carts” applies to several sentences around what is being debated here. I...

My Lords, as a former member of another place who represented 2,900 square miles of Wales, I have the feeling that we are getting into a horrible conceptual muddle in this debate. I feel the phrase “horses and carts” applies to several sentences around what is being debated here. I...

My Lords, it is good to see the noble Baroness, Lady Prentis, back in her place, and I am sure the whole Committee welcomes her back.

Unlike the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, I cannot claim to have a background in representing Wales—the closest I have been is on a few childhood...

My Lords, it is good to see the noble Baroness, Lady Prentis, back in her place, and I am sure the whole Committee welcomes her back.

Unlike the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, I cannot claim to have a background in representing Wales—the closest I have been is on a few childhood...

My Lords, I want to touch on a number of points. First, I join the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, in welcoming my noble and learned friend Lady Prentis back to these Benches. I do not think she will mind my saying that she has been following our debates assiduously from...

My Lords, I want to touch on a number of points. First, I join the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, in welcoming my noble and learned friend Lady Prentis back to these Benches. I do not think she will mind my saying that she has been following our debates assiduously from...

I want to clarify that that is not what I said in relation to the debate on the principle. That was a separate debate, and I do not think that it is necessarily relevant to the discussion, given that the LCM has been voted on.

I want to clarify that that is not what I said in relation to the debate on the principle. That was a separate debate, and I do not think that it is necessarily relevant to the discussion, given that the LCM has been voted on.

I recognise the noble Baroness’s view, but the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, asked why we should not just go ahead and legislate for Wales. The point is that the Welsh Senedd has debated this matter, which is a perfectly good reason for us not to proceed without its consent. I...

I recognise the noble Baroness’s view, but the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, asked why we should not just go ahead and legislate for Wales. The point is that the Welsh Senedd has debated this matter, which is a perfectly good reason for us not to proceed without its consent. I...

The Senedd has given its consent —that is what the noble Lord seems to be ignoring. Why should this Parliament not proceed to deal with what we all agree is a reserved matter?

The Senedd has given its consent —that is what the noble Lord seems to be ignoring. Why should this Parliament not proceed to deal with what we all agree is a reserved matter?

This is the heart of the problem, which was highlighted brilliantly by the noble Lord, Lord Stevens. This issue touches on a reserved matter—the noble Lord is absolutely right that the proposed change to the criminal law is reserved—but delivering the services, if done through the health service, would not...

This is the heart of the problem, which was highlighted brilliantly by the noble Lord, Lord Stevens. This issue touches on a reserved matter—the noble Lord is absolutely right that the proposed change to the criminal law is reserved—but delivering the services, if done through the health service, would not...

What the Senedd decided was that it would consent to Welsh Ministers being given power, in effect, to legislate on how to introduce it—that is Clause 42. The effect of the LCM is for the Senedd to say—to the extent that it should be a matter for the Senedd to...

What the Senedd decided was that it would consent to Welsh Ministers being given power, in effect, to legislate on how to introduce it—that is Clause 42. The effect of the LCM is for the Senedd to say—to the extent that it should be a matter for the Senedd to...

Yes, but the problem is that the noble and learned Lord has just confirmed, I think, that whatever the Welsh Senedd said, his intention was that this Parliament would have legislated to change the criminal law in Wales because it is reserved—and that does not give any democratic say to...

Yes, but the problem is that the noble and learned Lord has just confirmed, I think, that whatever the Welsh Senedd said, his intention was that this Parliament would have legislated to change the criminal law in Wales because it is reserved—and that does not give any democratic say to...

We are not going to change the devolution settlement in this Bill—of course we are not. That is not the issue and that is not what is before us. Instead, this comes back to the Government. I entirely agree with the speech from the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, but we...

We are not going to change the devolution settlement in this Bill—of course we are not. That is not the issue and that is not what is before us. Instead, this comes back to the Government. I entirely agree with the speech from the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, but we...

My Lords—

My Lords—

Hang on. The noble Lord has just intervened on me; I am still making my speech, and I need to deal with this. I agree with the point he made.

Let me come on to the amendments from the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Llanfaes. She has set out an alternative...

Hang on. The noble Lord has just intervened on me; I am still making my speech, and I need to deal with this. I agree with the point he made.

Let me come on to the amendments from the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Llanfaes. She has set out an alternative...

Has the noble Lord noted that Clause 42(1) and (3) have identical wording? Both the Secretary of State and the Welsh Ministers

“may by regulations make provision about voluntary assisted dying services in Wales”.

Maybe there is a conundrum that needs to be resolved there.

Has the noble Lord noted that Clause 42(1) and (3) have identical wording? Both the Secretary of State and the Welsh Ministers

“may by regulations make provision about voluntary assisted dying services in Wales”.

Maybe there is a conundrum that needs to be resolved there.