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Second reading agreed to on question. Programme motion agreed to on question. King's recommendation signified. Money resolution agreed to on question. Ways and Means resolution agreed to on question.

Lead member
Lord Harper; Anthony Browne
Answering member
Bill Esterson; Louise Haigh
Department
Department for Transport
Type
Debates on bills
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 cc769-807
House
House of Commons

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

As hon. Members know, most journeys take place on our roads. About 86% are made by cars, taxis and vans, but in the over 100 years since the invention of the car, despite our vehicles becoming better, safer...

Member
Lord Harper (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c769
House
House of Commons

As the Secretary of State knows, insurance premiums have been going through the roof recently—the costs are astronomical. What impact does he expect automated vehicles to have on insurance premiums?

Member
Jonathan Edwards (Independent (affiliation))
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c769
House
House of Commons

If the hon. Gentleman will allow me to make a little progress, I will speak about how one centrepiece of the Bill and of our approach is the safety not just of the automated vehicle and its occupants but of other road users, particularly vulnerable road users. I will come...

Member
Lord Harper (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c769
House
House of Commons

It will not surprise my right hon. Friend that I am speaking up for Milton Keynes on this subject. This is a huge global opportunity for Britain, worth £350 billion, and Milton Keynes is often the testbed of this technology. It is a beautiful, vibrant city that is going places—except...

Member
Ben Everitt (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c769
House
House of Commons

I thank my hon. Friend for speaking powerfully for his constituency. He is right: those developing this technology will want to roll it out carefully and thoughtfully, and they will want to do that in specific places in the United Kingdom. He has just made a powerful bid for Milton...

Member
Lord Harper (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 cc769-770
House
House of Commons

rose—

Member
Grahame Morris (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c770
House
House of Commons

Let me just set out what that review did, then I will take an intervention from the hon. Gentleman, who is an esteemed member of the Select Committee. It convened legal minds from across the country, launched three rounds of public consultation, sifted through hundreds of written responses and produced...

Member
Lord Harper (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c770
House
House of Commons

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. These are really important points, as is the clarification sought by the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr on insurance liability. Can I ask the Secretary of State about the arrangements for the compensation of victims of any...

Member
Grahame Morris (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c770
House
House of Commons

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise that point. We have arrangements in place for vehicles with human drivers who are uninsured, and we are working with the Motor Insurers’ Bureau on the arrangements that will be in place. I would envisage analogous arrangements for self-driving vehicles that are uninsured,...

Member
Lord Harper (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c770
House
House of Commons

rose—

Member
Grahame Morris (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c770
House
House of Commons

I am happy to hear from him again now.

Member
Lord Harper (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c770
House
House of Commons

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that clarification, but this is a whole new world where we will be relying on AI, software and so on. How would an insurer prove that a vehicle was being driven autonomously rather than by a driver? Under the provisions of...

Member
Grahame Morris (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c770
House
House of Commons

I will come on to that in my speech, but I will answer the hon. Gentleman’s specific questions. From the point of view of any person needing to make a claim, the insurer will be liable whether the vehicle is in self-driving mode or the user is in charge. What...

Member
Lord Harper (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 cc770-1
House
House of Commons

On the point the Secretary of State has just been discussing, presumably the details of all journeys undertaken by automated vehicles will be recorded. Where will that data be stored, and who will have access to it? Could someone access that information for non-driving reasons—for example, someone involved in divorce...

Member
Greg Knight (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c771
House
House of Commons

My right hon. Friend should note that data for these purposes will be protected in the usual way. Data has to be used for the purposes for which it was gathered. There are legal processes for who has access to it, as well as those we will set out specifically...

Member
Lord Harper (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c771
House
House of Commons

That gets to the nub of the point. Because these vehicles are going to be automated, they will be governed by an algorithm written by a human

being somewhere remote from where an accident might occur. How do we determine whether the primary purpose of that algorithm is to protect...

Member
Clive Efford (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c771
House
House of Commons

We will consult on the statement of safety principles, which will set out the governing principles of the legislation. On the specifics, this will be about making sure that the manufacturers—those who create the software and those who put the cars together—have rigorous processes for testing and decision-making. Those systems...

Member
Lord Harper (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c772
House
House of Commons

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way a second time. I agree entirely that, overall, roads will be safer with automated vehicles, but there will still be accidents. My question was specifically about where there is an accident and there is a choice to be made...

Member
Clive Efford (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c772
House
House of Commons

We will consult on the safety principles, but with some of this stuff we have to look at the way the vehicles make decisions. We cannot possibly legislate for every single set of circumstances. In the same way, when there is a collision involving a vehicle with a human driver,...

Member
Lord Harper (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
5 March 2024
Reference
746 c772
House
House of Commons