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Lords committee stage first day. Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.

Lead member
Lord Khan of Burnley
Answering member
Baroness Scott of Bybrook; Lord Jamieson
Department
Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government
Type
Committee proceedings; Debates on bills
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 cc431-482GC
House
House of Lords

Moved by

Lord Fox

1: Before Clause 1, insert the following new Clause—

“Purpose

The purpose of this Act is to vary some non-domestic rating multipliers and to remove the charitable exemption from private schools.”

Member’s explanatory statement

This amendment sets out the purpose of this Act and is intended to invite the House to consider...

Member
Lord Fox (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 c431GC
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I welcome the Minister back to his place and say that the whole House was sorry to hear of his family’s loss.

We on these Benches welcome this Bill as a narrow tinkering of a broken system. It may have some beneficial effects, but I remind your Lordships that...

Member
Lord Fox (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 cc431-2GC
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I stand to introduce the second group, in which, conveniently, there are three amendments, all in my name—

Member
Lord Thurlow (Crossbench; Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 c432GC
House
House of Lords

My apologies.

Member
Lord Thurlow (Crossbench; Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 c432GC
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 1 and to my notice opposing the Question that Clause 1 stand part of the Bill. I was pleased and interested to see that the Liberal Democrats had tabled a purpose clause, given that they have criticised purpose clauses tabled by my Conservative...

Member
Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 c432GC
House
House of Lords

As a point of information, I have proposed purpose clauses for at least six Bills in the last three years.

Member
Lord Fox (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 c433GC
House
House of Lords

I will continue. When my noble friend Lord Davies of Gower tabled a purpose clause on the Terrorism (Protection of Premises) Bill, the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, argued that it was unnecessary because it restated some of the language in the Long Title of the Bill. In contrast to the...

Member
Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 cc433-4GC
House
House of Lords

My Lords, let me start by expressing my gratitude for the kind words from the noble Lord, Lord Fox, in relation to my not being present for the Second Reading because of the tragic

loss of my mother, and I extend my gratitude to everyone in the House. I had...

Member
Lord Khan of Burnley (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 cc434-7GC
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his detailed response. The nature of this debate has set the scene for some of the groups that we will debate later—the £500,000 limit will certainly come up shortly, as will the other issues. The overall point suggested by the Minister—that we must...

Member
Lord Fox (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 c436GC
House
House of Lords

Moved by

Lord Thurlow

2: Clause 1, page 2, leave out lines 1 to 2

Member’s explanatory statement

This amendment, connected to another in the name of Lord Thurlow, seeks to remove the power to introduce higher multipliers for more valuable properties.

Member
Lord Thurlow (Crossbench; Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 c436GC
House
House of Lords

My Lords, after my practice run, for which I apologise, I rise to address this second group. Conveniently, it consists of three amendments, all in my name. Before doing so, I should mention that I was formerly a chartered surveyor and spent several decades working in the realms of commercial...

Member
Lord Thurlow (Crossbench; Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 cc436-9GC
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend Lord Thurlow for introducing this point. I support the general thrust of what he said, although I do not see any great likelihood that this will move the government position at all.

4.15 pm

My noble friend has pointed to various reasons....

Member
Earl of Lytton (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 cc438-440GC
House
House of Lords

My Lords, at this point in our first day in Committee, I ought to remind the Committee of my relevant interests as a councillor—we are reliant on business rates for what we do—and as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I also remind the Committee, given the further amendment...

Member
Baroness Pinnock (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 cc440-1GC
House
House of Lords

My Lords, if I may, I will intervene a second time, first with an apology because I should have properly declared my interests as a chartered surveyor and a member of the Rating Surveyors’ Association and of the Institute of Revenues, Rating & Valuation.

That apart, I will follow up on...

Member
Earl of Lytton (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 cc441-1566GC
House
House of Lords

The noble Earl alluded to a balloon being squeezed; we should remind ourselves that this is an expanding balloon. The costs faced by local authorities, of which a huge proportion—well over 50% and approaching 80% in some areas—is adult social care, are a rapidly expanding balloon that we are seeking...

Member
Lord Fox (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 c442GC
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I will speak to all the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow. I understand that he may be concerned by the lack of transparency surrounding the higher multipliers. We share this concern. We need to hear more detail from the Government. They are wrong...

Member
Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 cc442-3GC
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I will address Amendments 2, 4 and 45 from the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow, which concern provisions relating to the new higher multiplier and the funding of the new lower multipliers.

At the Autumn Budget 2024, the Chancellor set out a Budget to fix the foundations—a Budget that took...

Member
Lord Khan of Burnley (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 cc443-4GC
House
House of Lords

Several times already we have queried the decision to make the dividing line £500,000. It would be good to know why that number was chosen. Why not £600,000 or £400,000?

Member
Baroness Pinnock (Liberal Democrat)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 c444GC
House
House of Lords

I will come to the noble Baroness’s points when I come back to the valuations, rest assured.

The Government have been clear that they intend to fund new lower multipliers by raising revenue within the business rates system. The lower multipliers are a necessary tax cut, but a tax cut that...

Member
Lord Khan of Burnley (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
24 February 2025
Reference
843 cc444-5GC
House
House of Lords