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My Lords, I will be brief on Amendments 27, 30, 31 and 29, which deal with sanctions. However, given the hour, there is just one particular point I wish to pursue. We have already had the assurances of the noble Lord and his colleagues that there will be no target...

Member
Lord McKenzie of Luton (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1384-5
House
House of Lords

My Lords, it is very late and I have only a couple of thousand words to get through. More seriously, the Minister has given me quite a lot to think about. Obviously, as this is only the first time that we have had a proper discussion about this, I will...

Member
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1384
House
House of Lords

27: Clause 26, page 12, line 41, leave out ““three years”” and insert ““one year””

Member
Lord McKenzie of Luton (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1384
House
House of Lords

I think that the Companion says that the Minister is able to respond on Report, so it is very nice of him to hover, but he can have a rest. Obviously the automatic entitlement is set out in regulations; I think the powers are in the 2007 Act. It would...

Member
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1384
House
House of Lords

Rather than go into detail now I would like to wait for the proper consultation. The document is coming out in two days; it will lay out the issues, the proposals and the background, and there will be a full opportunity for us to gather all those views and pull...

Member
Lord Freud (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1384
House
House of Lords

When we look at the Macmillan recommendations, we can see that they take into account that people respond in a range of ways. In the recommendations that the charity made to the Harrington review, they came up with a lot of detail, and I could read it all out. No—I...

Member
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1382
House
House of Lords

Let me go through the argument and I will pause just before I sit down to let the noble Baroness to come back on the process. We asked Professor Harrington and Macmillan to review the current descriptors to provide evidence as to whether they could be improved, and we are...

Member
Lord Freud (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1382-3
House
House of Lords

My Lords, this is obviously a very sensitive issue, and I want to start by saying that we are determined that the benefit system should support in a sensitive, fair and appropriate way people who are diagnosed with cancer and coping with it. I shall try to go through the...

Member
Lord Freud (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1381-2
House
House of Lords

My Lords, like the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan, I think the fact that this amendment is necessary comes as a surprise. When we started discussions of the Bill, it seemed that the issue of whether recipients of debilitating cancer treatment in the form of oral chemotherapy should be automatically exempted...

Member
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1380-1
House
House of Lords

I shall speak also to Amendment 47. First, I want to declare an interest as chief executive of Breast Cancer Campaign. I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak to these amendments that aim to ensure that cancer patients awaiting, receiving or recovering from chemotherapy or radiotherapy will automatically...

Member
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1377-80
House
House of Lords

But if that means that he was previously on JSA and HB as part of his universal credit, and he has now gone into low-paid work, so is getting a wage, then presumably if the sanctions still apply he would fail to get the housing element going into his universal...

Member
Baroness Hollis of Heigham (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1387
House
House of Lords

No, my Lords, the sanction regime does not work like that. It takes away the equivalent amount of the JSA, so you keep getting your housing credit, but have this amount taken off, which will be a proportion of the total universal credit.

Member
Lord Freud (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1387
House
House of Lords

Did the noble Lord say that if the person got a job, after six months in the job the sanctions would be removed?

Member
Baroness Hollis of Heigham (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1386
House
House of Lords

Yes.

Member
Lord Freud (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1386
House
House of Lords

I do not think that is good enough. That means that coming back in and searching for the job—in other words, conforming to the sanctioning conditions—is not enough. He also has to be successful, which will depend on the lottery of what jobs are available, and so on. I would...

Member
Baroness Hollis of Heigham (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1386
House
House of Lords

My Lords, we thought about this matter very deeply and thought that it was very hard to genuinely measure compliance if there was not a hard result. We decided that the hard result was taking a job and holding that job for six months, and then we would take away...

Member
Lord Freud (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1386-7
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I shall speak extremely briefly to Amendment 28, which is in this group, but I would not wish the House to take the brevity of my remarks as an assessment of the importance that I attach to it. The amendment concerns thousands of people up and down the...

Member
Baroness Meacher (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1385-6
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I strongly support my noble friend on his last point. The whole point of sanctions is not just to punish but to change behaviour. If someone does so and therefore, having learnt their lesson, is willing to comply, they should get rewarded for that, so to speak, otherwise...

Member
Baroness Hollis of Heigham (Labour)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1385
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I will also try to be as brief as possible. We had a very good discussion on this area in Committee, and I can make clarifications which have been informed by some of that discussion. One of those clarifications is that we will limit the sanction amount to...

Member
Lord Freud (Conservative)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1386
House
House of Lords

My Lords, I rise to support the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, and to look specifically at the removal of the severe disability premium and the effect that it will have on young carers who are looking after a lone parent who is disabled or two parents who...

Member
Baroness Grey-Thompson (Crossbench)
Type
Proceeding contributions
Date
14 December 2011
Reference
733 c1364-5
House
House of Lords