My noble friend is right that some of these KPIs relate to wider economic circumstances than the railway currently has, but we discussed on the first day in Committee the fact that the need for a long-term freight target is so that GBR focuses on its own part in growing...

My noble friend is right that some of these KPIs relate to wider economic circumstances than the railway currently has, but we discussed on the first day in Committee the fact that the need for a long-term freight target is so that GBR focuses on its own part in growing...

Where does it say the CEO is the accounting officer?

Where does it say the CEO is the accounting officer?

What I would say to the noble Lord about all these things is that we are setting this organisation up and, conventionally, it is the chair and the board that support, hire and fire the chief executive. I do not believe that his amendment is the right way of doing...

What I would say to the noble Lord about all these things is that we are setting this organisation up and, conventionally, it is the chair and the board that support, hire and fire the chief executive. I do not believe that his amendment is the right way of doing...

My Lords, the Bill should be amended to say that the business plan is annual, especially as that is the Government’s clear intention. The Minister has just said the business plan is going to be annual and it was precisely to get stakeholder engagement with business away from the annual...

My Lords, the Bill should be amended to say that the business plan is annual, especially as that is the Government’s clear intention. The Minister has just said the business plan is going to be annual and it was precisely to get stakeholder engagement with business away from the annual...

I think I understand what the noble Lord is saying. I am expecting an organisation, as GBR will be, to be constantly in discussion with the wider railway industry and the supply industry, and indeed its customers, simply because, as we have discussed, the market will change over time. I...

I think I understand what the noble Lord is saying. I am expecting an organisation, as GBR will be, to be constantly in discussion with the wider railway industry and the supply industry, and indeed its customers, simply because, as we have discussed, the market will change over time. I...

The Minister has just changed the story. A moment ago, he was saying that engagement with business stakeholders would be through the business plan. Now he is saying that it is not actually through the business plan once a year—because anyway, we do not know it is going to be...

The Minister has just changed the story. A moment ago, he was saying that engagement with business stakeholders would be through the business plan. Now he is saying that it is not actually through the business plan once a year—because anyway, we do not know it is going to be...

I agree with the noble Lord that the supply chain is crucial. Actually, for much of the supply chain, what really makes a difference is the five-year periodic settlement. That highlights the need for this engagement to go on, both at the time when the five-year plan is formed and...

I agree with the noble Lord that the supply chain is crucial. Actually, for much of the supply chain, what really makes a difference is the five-year periodic settlement. That highlights the need for this engagement to go on, both at the time when the five-year plan is formed and...

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who took part in this interesting debate. To my mind, we established one or two rather important propositions.

The first is that, when the Government are setting out their statement of objectives, in relation to which GBR writes its business plan, it would be...

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who took part in this interesting debate. To my mind, we established one or two rather important propositions.

The first is that, when the Government are setting out their statement of objectives, in relation to which GBR writes its business plan, it would be...

If I may intervene on the noble Lord, for once, I say to him: welcome to the five-year funding periods. We are now in control period 7, I think. The process that was described is complex, but it works remarkably well, which is why the industry and the Government are...

If I may intervene on the noble Lord, for once, I say to him: welcome to the five-year funding periods. We are now in control period 7, I think. The process that was described is complex, but it works remarkably well, which is why the industry and the Government are...

I take that point, but, of course, that is if the financial assistance under this is restricted to infrastructure, which we debated a short while ago. If there is a requirement to notify of the financial assistance, I do not see it at the moment. The Minister might have a...

I take that point, but, of course, that is if the financial assistance under this is restricted to infrastructure, which we debated a short while ago. If there is a requirement to notify of the financial assistance, I do not see it at the moment. The Minister might have a...

Lords committee stage second day. Clauses 5 to 11 agreed to. Schedule 1 agreed to. Clause 12 agreed to. Schedule 2 under consideration.

Lords committee stage second day. Clauses 5 to 11 agreed to. Schedule 1 agreed to. Clause 12 agreed to. Schedule 2 under consideration.

Moved by

Baroness Pidgeon

22A: Clause 5, page 4, line 5, leave out “may” and insert “must”

Moved by

Baroness Pidgeon

22A: Clause 5, page 4, line 5, leave out “may” and insert “must”

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, had hoped to be here today but found himself with other commitments, and therefore asked me to move his Amendment 22A, which I also support. This is a probing amendment on whether the provision in the Bill which enables Great British Railways to...

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, had hoped to be here today but found himself with other commitments, and therefore asked me to move his Amendment 22A, which I also support. This is a probing amendment on whether the provision in the Bill which enables Great British Railways to...

I think it might fall to me to speak next, if my noble friend does not want to speak to his amendments at this stage.

I think it might fall to me to speak next, if my noble friend does not want to speak to his amendments at this stage.

I will speak at the end, if I may.

I will speak at the end, if I may.

I have four amendments in this group: Amendments 26, 64, 304 and 333. They are all on the same point, which is that, in the Bill, the definition of a “relevant local government body” is expressed as mayoral combined authorities, mayoral combined county authorities and passenger transport executives. Those first...

I have four amendments in this group: Amendments 26, 64, 304 and 333. They are all on the same point, which is that, in the Bill, the definition of a “relevant local government body” is expressed as mayoral combined authorities, mayoral combined county authorities and passenger transport executives. Those first...

My Lords, I rise briefly to support what my noble friend Lord Lansley has said on his Amendment 26. I had some dealings on this when the Prime Minister was the Mayor of the Greater Manchester and when Andy Street was Mayor of the West Midlands. Both of them engaged...

My Lords, I rise briefly to support what my noble friend Lord Lansley has said on his Amendment 26. I had some dealings on this when the Prime Minister was the Mayor of the Greater Manchester and when Andy Street was Mayor of the West Midlands. Both of them engaged...

My Lords, I rise briefly to speak to the amendments in my name, Amendments 298, 299 and 300, which follow on from the amendments about which noble Lords have spoken. I want to double-check that there will be consultation with the relevant authorities—whether it is Scotland, Wales or other authorities—before...

My Lords, I rise briefly to speak to the amendments in my name, Amendments 298, 299 and 300, which follow on from the amendments about which noble Lords have spoken. I want to double-check that there will be consultation with the relevant authorities—whether it is Scotland, Wales or other authorities—before...

My Lords, before I turn to the substance of this group, I would like to say that I received this morning from the Minister, as I imagine other noble Lords have, a letter setting out certain corrections to statements that he made on Tuesday. I have not had the opportunity...

My Lords, before I turn to the substance of this group, I would like to say that I received this morning from the Minister, as I imagine other noble Lords have, a letter setting out certain corrections to statements that he made on Tuesday. I have not had the opportunity...

My Lords, before we move on, I return briefly to a point raised in Committee on Tuesday on Amendment 146, regarding the long-term rail strategy and its relationship with devolved railway responsibilities. I was less than clear on this issue when we discussed it previously and thought it would be...

My Lords, before we move on, I return briefly to a point raised in Committee on Tuesday on Amendment 146, regarding the long-term rail strategy and its relationship with devolved railway responsibilities. I was less than clear on this issue when we discussed it previously and thought it would be...

I have a quick question. Why, then, is there not a similar provision saying that the rail strategy may not make provision about the functions of Welsh Ministers?

I have a quick question. Why, then, is there not a similar provision saying that the rail strategy may not make provision about the functions of Welsh Ministers?

The answer is that the infrastructure arrangements in Wales are significantly different and Wales does not have its own settlement in that respect. I reassure noble Lords that engagement between the Government and Scottish and Welsh Ministers on both strategies is productive and will continue until their publication. I am...

The answer is that the infrastructure arrangements in Wales are significantly different and Wales does not have its own settlement in that respect. I reassure noble Lords that engagement between the Government and Scottish and Welsh Ministers on both strategies is productive and will continue until their publication. I am...

Before the Minister concludes, may I respond, since I was one of the Members who raised this issue? I thank him for what he has just said and for the very helpful letter that he sent, to which the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, referred. I took the time to study...

Before the Minister concludes, may I respond, since I was one of the Members who raised this issue? I thank him for what he has just said and for the very helpful letter that he sent, to which the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, referred. I took the time to study...

I am grateful to the noble Lord. We thought that we had been saved by the bell, but we were not, so I thought that it was right to put it right.

I should say to the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, that to my knowledge I do not have an email...

I am grateful to the noble Lord. We thought that we had been saved by the bell, but we were not, so I thought that it was right to put it right.

I should say to the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, that to my knowledge I do not have an email...

It is on its way in a matter of seconds.

It is on its way in a matter of seconds.

On group 1, of course this matter is of significance to this Government, with a new Prime Minister, and I firmly believe that the Bill already empowers mayors in local areas. I am clear that Great British Railways will not work unless it works for and with mayors and local...

On group 1, of course this matter is of significance to this Government, with a new Prime Minister, and I firmly believe that the Bill already empowers mayors in local areas. I am clear that Great British Railways will not work unless it works for and with mayors and local...

I thank the Minister for his response to my amendments. To avoid us further returning to this issue, I should say that there are other amendments to exactly the same purpose that I did not notice had not been grouped together, in Clauses 16 and 83 and elsewhere in the...

I thank the Minister for his response to my amendments. To avoid us further returning to this issue, I should say that there are other amendments to exactly the same purpose that I did not notice had not been grouped together, in Clauses 16 and 83 and elsewhere in the...

I am grateful to the noble Lord. I am particularly grateful for his suggestion that we debate this only once. I have listened carefully to what he has just said and I will reflect on it, as I said I would do on the rest of the subject. I am...

I am grateful to the noble Lord. I am particularly grateful for his suggestion that we debate this only once. I have listened carefully to what he has just said and I will reflect on it, as I said I would do on the rest of the subject. I am...

My Lords, before the Minister sits down, I am very grateful for his response to my amendments, but on the relationships between local authorities and central government, we already have an example in the south-west—and, I think, in south Wales—where the train operators and the local authorities have come together...

My Lords, before the Minister sits down, I am very grateful for his response to my amendments, but on the relationships between local authorities and central government, we already have an example in the south-west—and, I think, in south Wales—where the train operators and the local authorities have come together...

In quick answer to my noble friend, the only reason it should be procured centrally is because improved wifi is needed on every railway service in Britain. Therefore, the department is determined to deliver it on all those services, and fragmenting the procurement would lead only to increased cost and...

In quick answer to my noble friend, the only reason it should be procured centrally is because improved wifi is needed on every railway service in Britain. Therefore, the department is determined to deliver it on all those services, and fragmenting the procurement would lead only to increased cost and...

My Lords, I think that illustrates a point. The Minister talks of devolution, but everything is flowing one way, so I will come back to this point. It arose in relation to Scotland—and, I think, also Wales—on Tuesday. GBR will be obliged to consult with local authorities on matters of...

My Lords, I think that illustrates a point. The Minister talks of devolution, but everything is flowing one way, so I will come back to this point. It arose in relation to Scotland—and, I think, also Wales—on Tuesday. GBR will be obliged to consult with local authorities on matters of...

I think the noble Lord is in a different place in his imagination of this. These proposals will generally originate with GBR. Its structure, which I described on the first day in Committee, will be organised locally and regionally and so it will know how those proposals are going to...

I think the noble Lord is in a different place in his imagination of this. These proposals will generally originate with GBR. Its structure, which I described on the first day in Committee, will be organised locally and regionally and so it will know how those proposals are going to...

I was really pleased to hear the Minister say how devolution is of such importance to the Government. We have had an interesting debate. I am glad he has committed to take this away and see what can be done with the proposal in Amendment 22A and reflect on the...

I was really pleased to hear the Minister say how devolution is of such importance to the Government. We have had an interesting debate. I am glad he has committed to take this away and see what can be done with the proposal in Amendment 22A and reflect on the...

Moved by

Lord Lansley

32: Clause 7, page 5, line 29, leave out from “section” to “in” in line 30

Member’s explanatory statement

This amendment, and the amendment in the name of Lord Lansley to Clause 7, page 5, line 36, would remove the exclusion of issues including access to infrastructure, the infrastructure capacity...

Moved by

Lord Lansley

32: Clause 7, page 5, line 29, leave out from “section” to “in” in line 30

Member’s explanatory statement

This amendment, and the amendment in the name of Lord Lansley to Clause 7, page 5, line 36, would remove the exclusion of issues including access to infrastructure, the infrastructure capacity...

My Lords, there are two sets of issues in this group. Mine is terribly simple and it is by way of a question to the Minister, just to be clear.

I do not understand why, in Clause 7, at the point the Secretary of State may give directions to Great British...

My Lords, there are two sets of issues in this group. Mine is terribly simple and it is by way of a question to the Minister, just to be clear.

I do not understand why, in Clause 7, at the point the Secretary of State may give directions to Great British...

My Lords, I will speak briefly to Amendments 35 and 36, which are in the names of my noble friends Lord Grayling and Lord Moylan.

Respectively, they deal with amending Clause 7, on the power to give directions, and Clause 9, on the power to give guidance to GBR. They...

My Lords, I will speak briefly to Amendments 35 and 36, which are in the names of my noble friends Lord Grayling and Lord Moylan.

Respectively, they deal with amending Clause 7, on the power to give directions, and Clause 9, on the power to give guidance to GBR. They...

My Lords, these amendments cover directions and guidance from the Secretary of State. They push for greater transparency around those, which is something that we really support. Information that has supported key decisions and directions should be placed in the public domain. It is really important that Great British Railways...

My Lords, these amendments cover directions and guidance from the Secretary of State. They push for greater transparency around those, which is something that we really support. Information that has supported key decisions and directions should be placed in the public domain. It is really important that Great British Railways...

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 37 in my name, which is a probing amendment. It would limit the power of the Scottish Ministers to issue directions to GBR to circumstances where a KPI has been missed or performance has not been up to snuff.

I do not advance that...

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 37 in my name, which is a probing amendment. It would limit the power of the Scottish Ministers to issue directions to GBR to circumstances where a KPI has been missed or performance has not been up to snuff.

I do not advance that...

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for their contributions to this group.

On Amendments 32 and 33, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, access to railway infrastructure is a reserved matter. It is important that access and timetabling decisions make sense across the entire rail network; therefore, there...

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for their contributions to this group.

On Amendments 32 and 33, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, access to railway infrastructure is a reserved matter. It is important that access and timetabling decisions make sense across the entire rail network; therefore, there...

On my Amendment 37, if the Minister insists on responding solely in the literal sense to explicitly probing amendments—seeking in this case to work out how a conflict in directions

between Scottish Ministers and the Secretary of State, for example, might be addressed—all he does is encourage further amendments to...

On my Amendment 37, if the Minister insists on responding solely in the literal sense to explicitly probing amendments—seeking in this case to work out how a conflict in directions

between Scottish Ministers and the Secretary of State, for example, might be addressed—all he does is encourage further amendments to...

I believe I did answer the noble Lord: the memoranda of understanding between Scottish Ministers and this Government, and between Welsh Ministers and this Government, set out the processes by which these things will be co-ordinated. Were there to be any real difficulty in the circumstances he is describing, we...

I believe I did answer the noble Lord: the memoranda of understanding between Scottish Ministers and this Government, and between Welsh Ministers and this Government, set out the processes by which these things will be co-ordinated. Were there to be any real difficulty in the circumstances he is describing, we...

We are grateful to the Minister for his explanations—for my part, on Amendments 32 and 33. The Minister explained why the Bill says that, for reason of reserve powers, the consent of Scottish or Welsh Ministers is not required. This is an opportunity to make it clear that, if we...

We are grateful to the Minister for his explanations—for my part, on Amendments 32 and 33. The Minister explained why the Bill says that, for reason of reserve powers, the consent of Scottish or Welsh Ministers is not required. This is an opportunity to make it clear that, if we...

Moved by

Lord Evans of Guisborough

38: Schedule 1, page 64, line 10, leave out from “may,” to “the” in line 11 and insert “at the recommendation of the Office of Rail and Road in relation to matters related to safety and standards, and after consultation with”

Member’s explanatory statement

This amendment would require...

Moved by

Lord Evans of Guisborough

38: Schedule 1, page 64, line 10, leave out from “may,” to “the” in line 11 and insert “at the recommendation of the Office of Rail and Road in relation to matters related to safety and standards, and after consultation with”

Member’s explanatory statement

This amendment would require...

My Lords, in moving Amendment 38 I will speak briefly to my Amendments 39, 41, 42 and 44 in this group. This group concerns Schedule 1, on the granting of the licence to Great British Railways, and the possible granting of licences to persons other than Great British Railways, to...

My Lords, in moving Amendment 38 I will speak briefly to my Amendments 39, 41, 42 and 44 in this group. This group concerns Schedule 1, on the granting of the licence to Great British Railways, and the possible granting of licences to persons other than Great British Railways, to...

My Lords, I have two amendments in this group. The purpose of Amendments 43 and 45 is to explore the circumstances in which the Secretary of State or the Office of Rail and Road grants a licence to a person other than Great British Railways to operate railway assets in...

My Lords, I have two amendments in this group. The purpose of Amendments 43 and 45 is to explore the circumstances in which the Secretary of State or the Office of Rail and Road grants a licence to a person other than Great British Railways to operate railway assets in...

My Lords, I shall speak briefly to Amendment 46 in the names of my noble friends Lord Grayling and Lord Moylan, which I think is a probing amendment. It would remove proposed new Section 8(6) in Schedule 1, which says:

“The Office of Rail and Road may not grant a licence...

My Lords, I shall speak briefly to Amendment 46 in the names of my noble friends Lord Grayling and Lord Moylan, which I think is a probing amendment. It would remove proposed new Section 8(6) in Schedule 1, which says:

“The Office of Rail and Road may not grant a licence...

My Lords, the amendments in this group are about strengthening the requirements for Great British Railways before it is able to grant a licence and to strengthen the Passengers’ Council in areas such as safety and standards. They would also strengthen the role of the Office of Rail and Road,...

My Lords, the amendments in this group are about strengthening the requirements for Great British Railways before it is able to grant a licence and to strengthen the Passengers’ Council in areas such as safety and standards. They would also strengthen the role of the Office of Rail and Road,...

My Lords, I thank my noble friends Lord Evans of Guisborough, Lord Lansley and Lord Grayling for their amendments in this group. I will address Amendments 41, 42 and 44 first.

The Government have repeatedly emphasised the importance of independent regulation under the new system. They tell us that the ORR...

My Lords, I thank my noble friends Lord Evans of Guisborough, Lord Lansley and Lord Grayling for their amendments in this group. I will address Amendments 41, 42 and 44 first.

The Government have repeatedly emphasised the importance of independent regulation under the new system. They tell us that the ORR...

My Lords, I am grateful to hear from noble Lords on this group, and it is a special pleasure to hear from the noble Lord, Lord Reay.

Amendments 38 and 39 would undermine one of the fundamental principles that the Bill seeks to establish. The Secretary of State will set the...

My Lords, I am grateful to hear from noble Lords on this group, and it is a special pleasure to hear from the noble Lord, Lord Reay.

Amendments 38 and 39 would undermine one of the fundamental principles that the Bill seeks to establish. The Secretary of State will set the...

Can I ask the Minister why, if it is not necessary to create a statutory consultation requirement, it is necessary to have a consultation requirement in relation to the Passengers’ Council? Can it not respond to the consultation on a licence in the same way as Scottish or Welsh Ministers...

Can I ask the Minister why, if it is not necessary to create a statutory consultation requirement, it is necessary to have a consultation requirement in relation to the Passengers’ Council? Can it not respond to the consultation on a licence in the same way as Scottish or Welsh Ministers...