It is 5 trillion a year.

It is 5 trillion a year.

Five trillion, a year. I am grateful to the Minister for answering my question because, very often, that does not happen. That really points at a problem.

5.45 pm

Finally, on the AISI point—we will probably come back to it a little bit in the next group—a few months ago AISI dropped...

Five trillion, a year. I am grateful to the Minister for answering my question because, very often, that does not happen. That really points at a problem.

5.45 pm

Finally, on the AISI point—we will probably come back to it a little bit in the next group—a few months ago AISI dropped...

To respond to the question about how the Bill approaches certain AI products and services, as I mentioned in respect of Amendment 6, were AI services to be brought into the ambit of the Bill as proposed in Amendment 6, that would not address some of the harms that the...

To respond to the question about how the Bill approaches certain AI products and services, as I mentioned in respect of Amendment 6, were AI services to be brought into the ambit of the Bill as proposed in Amendment 6, that would not address some of the harms that the...

Moved by

Lord Birt

7: Clause 7, page 6, line 31, after “engine” insert “, software or a digital platform,”

Member’s explanatory statement

This amendment, and others in the name of Lord Birt, seek to include software and platform providers in the definition of a relevant digital service provider.

Moved by

Lord Birt

7: Clause 7, page 6, line 31, after “engine” insert “, software or a digital platform,”

Member’s explanatory statement

This amendment, and others in the name of Lord Birt, seek to include software and platform providers in the definition of a relevant digital service provider.

My Lords, I will also speak to all the other amendments in my name, which are all supported by the noble Lord, Lord Londesborough, and some by others of your Lordships.

The Bill in its present form, as others have already said, is extraordinarily limited in scope and ambition—well short, for...

My Lords, I will also speak to all the other amendments in my name, which are all supported by the noble Lord, Lord Londesborough, and some by others of your Lordships.

The Bill in its present form, as others have already said, is extraordinarily limited in scope and ambition—well short, for...

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 7, 9, 11, 76, 77 and 88 to 91 in the name of my noble friend Lord Birt, each of which I have added my name to, and to Amendment 87 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones.

6 pm

Since Second Reading,...

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 7, 9, 11, 76, 77 and 88 to 91 in the name of my noble friend Lord Birt, each of which I have added my name to, and to Amendment 87 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones.

6 pm

Since Second Reading,...

My Lords, it is a pleasure to speak to this group of amendments; I was certainly delighted to sign those in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Birt. Before turning to the specific subject matter, I say that the point he raised about JLR is germane to our broader...

My Lords, it is a pleasure to speak to this group of amendments; I was certainly delighted to sign those in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Birt. Before turning to the specific subject matter, I say that the point he raised about JLR is germane to our broader...

My Lords, the last two interventions seemed to raise two issues, not one. The first is the question of how many regulators and the second is their coverage. Who will they regulate? Will they regulate just, say, the public sector, or will they regulate, in effect, the whole of the...

My Lords, the last two interventions seemed to raise two issues, not one. The first is the question of how many regulators and the second is their coverage. Who will they regulate? Will they regulate just, say, the public sector, or will they regulate, in effect, the whole of the...

My Lords, I first congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Birt, on what is a really comprehensive vision expressed in this group of amendments. I speak in strong support of those amendments, on which both he and the noble Lord, Lord Londesborough, have spoken so cogently. Together, they address one of...

My Lords, I first congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Birt, on what is a really comprehensive vision expressed in this group of amendments. I speak in strong support of those amendments, on which both he and the noble Lord, Lord Londesborough, have spoken so cogently. Together, they address one of...

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Birt, for introducing this debate and all noble Lords who have spoken. I appreciate the rigorous strategic thinking that the noble Lords, Lord Birt and Lord Londesborough, have put into the proposal for an office for cyber resilience, but I will try...

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Birt, for introducing this debate and all noble Lords who have spoken. I appreciate the rigorous strategic thinking that the noble Lords, Lord Birt and Lord Londesborough, have put into the proposal for an office for cyber resilience, but I will try...

I thank the noble Lords, Lord Birt and Lord Clement-Jones, for their introduction to this section and for setting out the motivation behind a single cyber regulator.

As others have pointed out, this is a question of sectoral expertise and cyber expertise. It is my view that, given the complex cyber...

I thank the noble Lords, Lord Birt and Lord Clement-Jones, for their introduction to this section and for setting out the motivation behind a single cyber regulator.

As others have pointed out, this is a question of sectoral expertise and cyber expertise. It is my view that, given the complex cyber...

In this recovery regime, will whatever organisations that are to be regulated be levied for the service of regulation that will be provided, or will the revenue come as a result of fines? If that is the case, I hope they will not raise the revenue by finding fault. What...

In this recovery regime, will whatever organisations that are to be regulated be levied for the service of regulation that will be provided, or will the revenue come as a result of fines? If that is the case, I hope they will not raise the revenue by finding fault. What...

The intent behind the cost recovery model is to provide a fair approach so that regulators, when regulating on cyber, can recover the costs associated with that. Further guidance will

be put out on this. I cannot recall the Bill’s exact provisions on fines. I will come back to the...

The intent behind the cost recovery model is to provide a fair approach so that regulators, when regulating on cyber, can recover the costs associated with that. Further guidance will

be put out on this. I cannot recall the Bill’s exact provisions on fines. I will come back to the...

My Lords, I confess to a real disappointment listening to the Minister’s response. We have sat here all afternoon and heard many strong contributions on many matters, but so far, the Government do not appear to have moved an inch on any of them.

I have a few quick points. The...

My Lords, I confess to a real disappointment listening to the Minister’s response. We have sat here all afternoon and heard many strong contributions on many matters, but so far, the Government do not appear to have moved an inch on any of them.

I have a few quick points. The...

Moved by

Baroness Ludford

10: Clause 8, page 7, line 36, at end insert—

“(1A) In paragraph (1), after “risks” insert “, including risks arising from fraud,”.”

Member's explanatory statement

This amendment would explicitly include risks arising from fraud as one of the risks to the security of network and information systems that relevant digital...

Moved by

Baroness Ludford

10: Clause 8, page 7, line 36, at end insert—

“(1A) In paragraph (1), after “risks” insert “, including risks arising from fraud,”.”

Member's explanatory statement

This amendment would explicitly include risks arising from fraud as one of the risks to the security of network and information systems that relevant digital...

My Lords, I apologise for not having been much around earlier, but I am also involved in the Hillsborough Bill in the Chamber.

Amendment 10 stands in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones. It would insert just five words into Regulation 12 of the 2018 regulations so...

My Lords, I apologise for not having been much around earlier, but I am also involved in the Hillsborough Bill in the Chamber.

Amendment 10 stands in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones. It would insert just five words into Regulation 12 of the 2018 regulations so...

My Lords, I declare my interest as a chief engineer working for AtkinsRéalis. I shall speak to Amendment 82.

In our debate on group 3, a lot of good points were made about one specific technology related to cyber: AI. However, as the noble Lord, Lord Birt, said in the debate...

My Lords, I declare my interest as a chief engineer working for AtkinsRéalis. I shall speak to Amendment 82.

In our debate on group 3, a lot of good points were made about one specific technology related to cyber: AI. However, as the noble Lord, Lord Birt, said in the debate...

My Lords, I will speak to this substantial and rather disparate group of amendments, including Amendments 93 to 95 in my name, Amendment 10 tabled by my noble friend Lady Ludford, and a number of other amendments in

the names of other noble Lords, including that of the noble Lord,...

My Lords, I will speak to this substantial and rather disparate group of amendments, including Amendments 93 to 95 in my name, Amendment 10 tabled by my noble friend Lady Ludford, and a number of other amendments in

the names of other noble Lords, including that of the noble Lord,...

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, for introducing this group. I am generally supportive of the principles she is introducing, and I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. I particularly enjoyed trying to get my head round ten septillion, however many zeros that...

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, for introducing this group. I am generally supportive of the principles she is introducing, and I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. I particularly enjoyed trying to get my head round ten septillion, however many zeros that...

I thank noble Lords for their amendments in this group, which I will endeavour to cover in my response, starting with the lead amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford. Fraud risks

and fraud are indeed important to address. The Bill requires relevant digital service providers to prevent or mitigate...

I thank noble Lords for their amendments in this group, which I will endeavour to cover in my response, starting with the lead amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford. Fraud risks

and fraud are indeed important to address. The Bill requires relevant digital service providers to prevent or mitigate...