To ask His Majesty's Government what privacy protections are in place around the use of facial recognition software by private companies.

To ask His Majesty's Government what privacy protections are in place around the use of facial recognition software by private companies.

To ask His Majesty's Government what requirements are in place for private companies to inform their customers that facial recognition software is being used on the premises.

To ask His Majesty's Government what requirements are in place for private companies to inform their customers that facial recognition software is being used on the premises.

To ask His Majesty's Government what plans they have to develop a legislative framework for the use of facial recognition software by private companies.

To ask His Majesty's Government what plans they have to develop a legislative framework for the use of facial recognition software by private companies.

To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, what steps he is taking to (a) support NHS trusts with software needs and (b) unify software across NHS trusts.

To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, what steps he is taking to (a) support NHS trusts with software needs and (b) unify software across NHS trusts.

Lords statement on launching a national conversation on how we will build and use digital ID as the means to access public services digitally on a mobile phone or computer.

Lords statement on launching a national conversation on how we will build and use digital ID as the means to access public services digitally on a mobile phone or computer.

My Lords, this Statement was delivered just one week ago and has already run into some serious difficulty. Reports in the press suggest that both the Health Secretary and the Education Secretary have made it clear that their departments will not provide some of the data required for the scheme....

My Lords, this Statement was delivered just one week ago and has already run into some serious difficulty. Reports in the press suggest that both the Health Secretary and the Education Secretary have made it clear that their departments will not provide some of the data required for the scheme....

My Lords, I thank the Minister for this opportunity to respond to last week’s Statement and, indeed, for his personal engagement with us at that time.

The Chief Secretary told the Commons on Tuesday that he was continuing the proud Labour tradition of building public services for the many. He invoked...

My Lords, I thank the Minister for this opportunity to respond to last week’s Statement and, indeed, for his personal engagement with us at that time.

The Chief Secretary told the Commons on Tuesday that he was continuing the proud Labour tradition of building public services for the many. He invoked...

I thank the noble Earl and the noble Lord for their contributions. The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, is asking me questions to which, as he very well knows, I am not going to give the answer. That is the whole point of the consultation, and across the Chamber, everyone knows...

I thank the noble Earl and the noble Lord for their contributions. The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, is asking me questions to which, as he very well knows, I am not going to give the answer. That is the whole point of the consultation, and across the Chamber, everyone knows...

My Lords, first, I take it from what the Minister has just said about costs that no sum has been earmarked in the current three-year expenditure review for the development of the scheme—can he confirm that? Secondly, will people in Scotland have to access the Government’s proposed ID scheme for...

My Lords, first, I take it from what the Minister has just said about costs that no sum has been earmarked in the current three-year expenditure review for the development of the scheme—can he confirm that? Secondly, will people in Scotland have to access the Government’s proposed ID scheme for...

We will consult the devolved authorities on this; they will be a major part of the consultation. There is no definite cost for the

programme because the design of what we are building has not been decided yet. Noble Lords should not just look at one line item on the...

We will consult the devolved authorities on this; they will be a major part of the consultation. There is no definite cost for the

programme because the design of what we are building has not been decided yet. Noble Lords should not just look at one line item on the...

My Lords, I declare an interest as the co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Digital Identity. The Minister said that he will consult widely on this and on what support there might be for it. Nearly 3 million people have signed the petition. If they have not already convinced...

My Lords, I declare an interest as the co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Digital Identity. The Minister said that he will consult widely on this and on what support there might be for it. Nearly 3 million people have signed the petition. If they have not already convinced...

On the noble Baroness’s last point, how we look at inclusion and accessibility is really important in tackling those issues of discrimination. It is very important that the consultation looks at that. The noble Earl also raised a question about the NHS app which I did not explicitly address. That...

On the noble Baroness’s last point, how we look at inclusion and accessibility is really important in tackling those issues of discrimination. It is very important that the consultation looks at that. The noble Earl also raised a question about the NHS app which I did not explicitly address. That...

I very much welcome the deliberative aspect of this consultation. It is good to see the Government doing that, and I hope it goes into other areas. I want to associate myself with many of the questions that the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, asked. Hopefully over this consultation period they...

I very much welcome the deliberative aspect of this consultation. It is good to see the Government doing that, and I hope it goes into other areas. I want to associate myself with many of the questions that the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, asked. Hopefully over this consultation period they...

I cannot be too prescriptive, but I can reassure the noble Baroness on her first point; a number of noble Lords have raised this issue. This will be a sovereign-based scheme. We will develop it in-house through government services. It will not be contracted out. On her other point on...

I cannot be too prescriptive, but I can reassure the noble Baroness on her first point; a number of noble Lords have raised this issue. This will be a sovereign-based scheme. We will develop it in-house through government services. It will not be contracted out. On her other point on...

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his update. First, can I take him back to a slightly more fundamental question that we are yet to address in this exchange? Why do the Government feel it is necessary at all to have a consultation, given the visceral public reaction to...

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his update. First, can I take him back to a slightly more fundamental question that we are yet to address in this exchange? Why do the Government feel it is necessary at all to have a consultation, given the visceral public reaction to...

I keep coming back to the point that when we are looking at public services and people’s access to them, there is a solution here that most people would be very happy about—but we will not determine that unless we have a fuller consultation.

On the value-for-money element, the deliberative process...

I keep coming back to the point that when we are looking at public services and people’s access to them, there is a solution here that most people would be very happy about—but we will not determine that unless we have a fuller consultation.

On the value-for-money element, the deliberative process...

My Lords, I endorse what my noble friend has said; I hope we all give this a great deal of support. Does he agree with me that it is a great pity that the pilot scheme abolished by the coalition Government in 2010 was not allowed to run? All the...

My Lords, I endorse what my noble friend has said; I hope we all give this a great deal of support. Does he agree with me that it is a great pity that the pilot scheme abolished by the coalition Government in 2010 was not allowed to run? All the...

I agree with my noble friend. When we all sit down and have a sensible discussion about this and try to take the partisan politics away, we will reach a much better consensus. This consultation enables us to do that.

At the outset, we have to put at the forefront of...

I agree with my noble friend. When we all sit down and have a sensible discussion about this and try to take the partisan politics away, we will reach a much better consensus. This consultation enables us to do that.

At the outset, we have to put at the forefront of...

My Lords, I join the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, in applauding the Government’s commitment in this Statement to deliberative democracy. That is an innovative step forward, but I am sure the Minister will want this Statement to be accurate, so I point out that it says:

“This will not be a...

My Lords, I join the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, in applauding the Government’s commitment in this Statement to deliberative democracy. That is an innovative step forward, but I am sure the Minister will want this Statement to be accurate, so I point out that it says:

“This will not be a...

I do not agree at all. I think that 14% of people do not have some of the things that the noble Baroness referred to, but the world is changing very fast and if we are to address financial exclusion, inclusion and accessibility, this process can address many of those...

I do not agree at all. I think that 14% of people do not have some of the things that the noble Baroness referred to, but the world is changing very fast and if we are to address financial exclusion, inclusion and accessibility, this process can address many of those...

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend’s points about the consultation process; there is a great deal to consult about. As one Tesco consumer to another, can my noble friend confirm that, almost irrespective of the consultation, the Government are determined to allow an individual, if they wish, to delete...

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend’s points about the consultation process; there is a great deal to consult about. As one Tesco consumer to another, can my noble friend confirm that, almost irrespective of the consultation, the Government are determined to allow an individual, if they wish, to delete...

Let me address the first question. This is not a mandatory scheme and, certainly, if people have a digital ID, they can say they do not want it. I do not anticipate any circumstances where a Government would want to take away something that lets people access public services, but...

Let me address the first question. This is not a mandatory scheme and, certainly, if people have a digital ID, they can say they do not want it. I do not anticipate any circumstances where a Government would want to take away something that lets people access public services, but...

My Lords, as ever with many big government ideas, there is a solution that is yet to find a problem.

I am yet to hear a ministerial Statement on the very serious data events that happened at Companies House over the last week. I have not heard a Statement from Ministers...

My Lords, as ever with many big government ideas, there is a solution that is yet to find a problem.

I am yet to hear a ministerial Statement on the very serious data events that happened at Companies House over the last week. I have not heard a Statement from Ministers...

The noble Lord knows that I cannot possibly answer on his latter point, but I certainly will ensure that he gets a response about it. It is interesting that he was, I think, making the case for what we are proposing. The problem is that different government departments have different...

The noble Lord knows that I cannot possibly answer on his latter point, but I certainly will ensure that he gets a response about it. It is interesting that he was, I think, making the case for what we are proposing. The problem is that different government departments have different...

My Lords, NHS Digital services are built and run to rigorous Government Digital Service standards. They are secure, user-centred, interoperable and continually improving. National Health Service England has significantly expanded its in-house engineering and data capability, and it is reducing its reliance on outsourced systems and strengthening operational resilience. These measures ensure that health and care data is available in all clinical settings to improve outcomes for patients, while delivering value for money to the taxpayer.

My Lords, NHS Digital services are built and run to rigorous Government Digital Service standards. They are secure, user-centred, interoperable and continually improving. National Health Service England has significantly expanded its in-house engineering and data capability, and it is reducing its reliance on outsourced systems and strengthening operational resilience. These measures ensure that health and care data is available in all clinical settings to improve outcomes for patients, while delivering value for money to the taxpayer.

I thank the Minister for that reassuring Answer. The NHS has had a disastrous history of outsourcing its IT technology, which has wasted millions of pounds. A requirement of outsourcing is that there must be sufficient in-house expertise to properly assess the need for outside assistance and the quality of whatever assistance is on offer. In the absence of such expertise, outsourcing can be perilous. Moreover, given the requisite in-house expertise, outsourcing may become unnecessary. At a time when a host of novel IT solutions are becoming available, the IT staff of NHS England are seeing their numbers radically reduced. At the same time, the NHS is becoming increasingly dependent on the services of large American IT corporations. Can we be assured—genuinely assured—that history will not be repeating itself?

I thank the Minister for that reassuring Answer. The NHS has had a disastrous history of outsourcing its IT technology, which has wasted millions of pounds. A requirement of outsourcing is that there must be sufficient in-house expertise to properly assess the need for outside assistance and the quality of whatever assistance is on offer. In the absence of such expertise, outsourcing can be perilous. Moreover, given the requisite in-house expertise, outsourcing may become unnecessary. At a time when a host of novel IT solutions are becoming available, the IT staff of NHS England are seeing their numbers radically reduced. At the same time, the NHS is becoming increasingly dependent on the services of large American IT corporations. Can we be assured—genuinely assured—that history will not be repeating itself?

My noble friend is right to point out the history. The NHS previously relied very heavily on large, outsourced IT systems that, in some cases, led to inflexibility, high long-term costs and limited NHS control over core platforms and data. I was glad to arrange for my noble friend to meet the chief data and analytics officer at NHS England last Wednesday. I hope that, like me, he was reassured that NHS England has very much shifted its model towards building and operating critical digital services in-house, in line with the standards that I referred to in my initial Answer.

My noble friend is right to point out the history. The NHS previously relied very heavily on large, outsourced IT systems that, in some cases, led to inflexibility, high long-term costs and limited NHS control over core platforms and data. I was glad to arrange for my noble friend to meet the chief data and analytics officer at NHS England last Wednesday. I hope that, like me, he was reassured that NHS England has very much shifted its model towards building and operating critical digital services in-house, in line with the standards that I referred to in my initial Answer.

My Lords, cyber security is an essential element in any system, but nowhere more so than when people’s health records are being maintained. Many security breaches are attributed, at least in part, to human error. What investment are His Majesty’s Government making to train front-line staff in the new systems and provide continuous professional development to achieve the 10-year digital healthcare plan?

My Lords, cyber security is an essential element in any system, but nowhere more so than when people’s health records are being maintained. Many security breaches are attributed, at least in part, to human error. What investment are His Majesty’s Government making to train front-line staff in the new systems and provide continuous professional development to achieve the 10-year digital healthcare plan?

The straightforward answer is that we are doing exactly that. It is important to say that our front-line digitisation—our move from analogue to digital—is not something for the sake of it; we are doing it because it is improving efficiency and outcomes. For example, a 94% coverage of electronic patient records is expected by the end of this month, and the digitally mature trusts show a 13% lower cost per admission. That is a prize worth having, but we can do it only through the systems and training that the noble Baroness seeks.

The straightforward answer is that we are doing exactly that. It is important to say that our front-line digitisation—our move from analogue to digital—is not something for the sake of it; we are doing it because it is improving efficiency and outcomes. For example, a 94% coverage of electronic patient records is expected by the end of this month, and the digitally mature trusts show a 13% lower cost per admission. That is a prize worth having, but we can do it only through the systems and training that the noble Baroness seeks.

My Lords, I support what the noble Viscount said. The history of software in the National Health Service is nothing less than a disaster. Coupled with that is a very unfortunate situation where some of the companies that have been responsible for these messes in the NHS are still on the Government’s procurement lists and are still getting contracts from the Government. Surely more attention should be paid to that, and we should curb that as soon as possible.

My Lords, I support what the noble Viscount said. The history of software in the National Health Service is nothing less than a disaster. Coupled with that is a very unfortunate situation where some of the companies that have been responsible for these messes in the NHS are still on the Government’s procurement lists and are still getting contracts from the Government. Surely more attention should be paid to that, and we should curb that as soon as possible.

If the noble Lord has particular companies in mind, he is most welcome to raise them with me. It is important that we look at what NHS teams have done: they have designed, built and maintained

national platforms. The NHS app is an example; I am sure that many noble Lords will be familiar with it. That is going to be our digital front door to the NHS. In addition, there is the NHS login and core national infrastructure. All these mean full NHS ownership, governance and control. Supported by £2.5 billion of investment in 2025-26, we are, as the noble Lord seeks, expanding NHS in-house digital capability to reduce the reliance on large suppliers.

If the noble Lord has particular companies in mind, he is most welcome to raise them with me. It is important that we look at what NHS teams have done: they have designed, built and maintained

national platforms. The NHS app is an example; I am sure that many noble Lords will be familiar with it. That is going to be our digital front door to the NHS. In addition, there is the NHS login and core national infrastructure. All these mean full NHS ownership, governance and control. Supported by £2.5 billion of investment in 2025-26, we are, as the noble Lord seeks, expanding NHS in-house digital capability to reduce the reliance on large suppliers.

My Lords, last week’s catastrophic attack on Stryker by Iranian-linked actors paralysed supply of some critical surgical equipment across the NHS. Does the Minister agree that our total reliance on vulnerable third-party global medtech platforms is a serious security risk? How will the Government ensure in-house expertise and procurement software so that the NHS can bypass compromised commercial networks during such crises?

My Lords, last week’s catastrophic attack on Stryker by Iranian-linked actors paralysed supply of some critical surgical equipment across the NHS. Does the Minister agree that our total reliance on vulnerable third-party global medtech platforms is a serious security risk? How will the Government ensure in-house expertise and procurement software so that the NHS can bypass compromised commercial networks during such crises?

Cyber attacks across our whole government are extremely concerning, and that is why we have built resilience. On health and social care specifically, I can assure the noble Lord that, in 2025-26, we invested £75 million across health and social care; that built on the £375 million invested since 2017. When I had responsibility for the blood transfusion service, my own experience was that, where there was a cyber attack, we had the systems in place.

Cyber attacks across our whole government are extremely concerning, and that is why we have built resilience. On health and social care specifically, I can assure the noble Lord that, in 2025-26, we invested £75 million across health and social care; that built on the £375 million invested since 2017. When I had responsibility for the blood transfusion service, my own experience was that, where there was a cyber attack, we had the systems in place.

My Lords, there is always a very difficult balance between keeping something in-house or outsourcing it, and we should not forget the national programme for IT in the NHS in the early 2000s, which ended up costing between £10 billion and £20 billion. My question is on the company Palantir. The Minister will be aware that there are a range of views on Palantir. Some say that it is the best software available and that no one can match it; others say that they are worried that it will lock the NHS in long-term and scrape data for other uses. What specific measures have NHS England and the department put in place so that, in the event that the Palantir contract is not renewed, the healthcare system will be able to move seamlessly to another supplier?

My Lords, there is always a very difficult balance between keeping something in-house or outsourcing it, and we should not forget the national programme for IT in the NHS in the early 2000s, which ended up costing between £10 billion and £20 billion. My question is on the company Palantir. The Minister will be aware that there are a range of views on Palantir. Some say that it is the best software available and that no one can match it; others say that they are worried that it will lock the NHS in long-term and scrape data for other uses. What specific measures have NHS England and the department put in place so that, in the event that the Palantir contract is not renewed, the healthcare system will be able to move seamlessly to another supplier?

That seamless movement is an important point generally, but the federated data platform does not centralise or sell patient data. Data remains firmly under NHS control, and access is strictly governed. It is fully auditable and used only for approved patient benefit and NHS benefit. Palantir operates strictly under the instruction of NHS England and it does not, as I said, own or control NHS data. That access is tightly governed. In response to the earlier question, I note that the federated data platform to which the noble Lord refers is cyber resilient and subject to rigorous contractual, legal and information governance controls.

That seamless movement is an important point generally, but the federated data platform does not centralise or sell patient data. Data remains firmly under NHS control, and access is strictly governed. It is fully auditable and used only for approved patient benefit and NHS benefit. Palantir operates strictly under the instruction of NHS England and it does not, as I said, own or control NHS data. That access is tightly governed. In response to the earlier question, I note that the federated data platform to which the noble Lord refers is cyber resilient and subject to rigorous contractual, legal and information governance controls.

My Lords, my question also relates to the federated data platform. I am sure the noble Baroness is aware that more than 50,000 patients have written to their local trust boards asking not to have their data placed on it. The Greater Manchester ICB, serving 2.8 million patients, has said

that this does not present value for money and is a big public trust issue. Palantir is of course owned by Peter Thiel and Alex Karp, who are closely associated with the Trump regime and have very right-wing and anti-democratic views. Does the Minister acknowledge that this association with Palantir is damaging our NHS?

My Lords, my question also relates to the federated data platform. I am sure the noble Baroness is aware that more than 50,000 patients have written to their local trust boards asking not to have their data placed on it. The Greater Manchester ICB, serving 2.8 million patients, has said

that this does not present value for money and is a big public trust issue. Palantir is of course owned by Peter Thiel and Alex Karp, who are closely associated with the Trump regime and have very right-wing and anti-democratic views. Does the Minister acknowledge that this association with Palantir is damaging our NHS?

I would first look at delivery: the federated data platform has enabled nearly 100,000 extra operations, removed over 600,000 patients from waiting lists and reduced unnecessary bed days by 15%, as well as driving a 10% improvement in cancer diagnosis—so people are being diagnosed sooner because the system is working more efficiently, and that is important. This is a three-year contract given in 2023. I refer the noble Baroness to the comments I made to the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, about the rigorous contract due diligence for all commercial agreements, including with Palantir.

I would first look at delivery: the federated data platform has enabled nearly 100,000 extra operations, removed over 600,000 patients from waiting lists and reduced unnecessary bed days by 15%, as well as driving a 10% improvement in cancer diagnosis—so people are being diagnosed sooner because the system is working more efficiently, and that is important. This is a three-year contract given in 2023. I refer the noble Baroness to the comments I made to the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, about the rigorous contract due diligence for all commercial agreements, including with Palantir.

My Lords, it is historically true that the NHS wasted a lot of money, but this was partly because the development of digital services was in-house. Currently, things are looking much better, and the classic example is the development of the NHS app. However, I will ask the Minister about the health research data service that will be established. Patients should have confidence in data that is used and collected for research, partly because of the recent report on UK Biobank, where the researchers published the codes they were using to access data for research. It has to be made absolutely certain that the public have the confidence in the data that is used.

My Lords, it is historically true that the NHS wasted a lot of money, but this was partly because the development of digital services was in-house. Currently, things are looking much better, and the classic example is the development of the NHS app. However, I will ask the Minister about the health research data service that will be established. Patients should have confidence in data that is used and collected for research, partly because of the recent report on UK Biobank, where the researchers published the codes they were using to access data for research. It has to be made absolutely certain that the public have the confidence in the data that is used.

Absolutely—public confidence is really important, and the debate around this today perhaps emphasises the need to communicate the realities of what is going on. But giving the NHS greater control and long-term value for money, as well as protecting privacy and improving public trust while improving outcomes, is the way forward. But the noble Lord is quite right, and we will ensure that we seek to build that confidence still further.

Absolutely—public confidence is really important, and the debate around this today perhaps emphasises the need to communicate the realities of what is going on. But giving the NHS greater control and long-term value for money, as well as protecting privacy and improving public trust while improving outcomes, is the way forward. But the noble Lord is quite right, and we will ensure that we seek to build that confidence still further.

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have for sustaining and enhancing the in-house software capabilities of the NHS.

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have for sustaining and enhancing the in-house software capabilities of the NHS.

To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office, what the annual cost is of Government contracts for the licensing of a) Zoom, b) Microsoft, c) Amazon d) Google computing platforms for the civil service.

To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office, what the annual cost is of Government contracts for the licensing of a) Zoom, b) Microsoft, c) Amazon d) Google computing platforms for the civil service.

Motion that this House has considered Government support for UK-based tech companies. Agreed to on question.

Motion that this House has considered Government support for UK-based tech companies. Agreed to on question.

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Government support for UK-based tech companies.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I am pleased to have secured this debate.

It is hard to measure the true economic value of the technology sector in the UK, but I think...

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Government support for UK-based tech companies.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I am pleased to have secured this debate.

It is hard to measure the true economic value of the technology sector in the UK, but I think...

I congratulate the hon. Member on securing this important debate on Government support for UK-based tech companies. My Slough constituency is a huge tech and data hub; indeed, it has the second largest concentration of data centres anywhere in the world. Does he agree that it would be an act...

I congratulate the hon. Member on securing this important debate on Government support for UK-based tech companies. My Slough constituency is a huge tech and data hub; indeed, it has the second largest concentration of data centres anywhere in the world. Does he agree that it would be an act...

I have a list of Government follies here, if the hon. Member would like me to pass them on. In all seriousness, I completely agree with him on the importance of the industry and those jobs, and I am sure that the Minister will pick that up when he responds.

To...

I have a list of Government follies here, if the hon. Member would like me to pass them on. In all seriousness, I completely agree with him on the importance of the industry and those jobs, and I am sure that the Minister will pick that up when he responds.

To...

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts—and I genuinely hope you have some good news about Sheffield Wednesday in the next few days.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts—and I genuinely hope you have some good news about Sheffield Wednesday in the next few days.

I stand corrected, Mr Betts—I was in meetings all morning, so I have not seen the sports news yet.

For constituencies like mine, which were dependent on heavy industry, the development of high technology offers new growth opportunities that we can harness in our valley communities once again. I want to...

I stand corrected, Mr Betts—I was in meetings all morning, so I have not seen the sports news yet.

For constituencies like mine, which were dependent on heavy industry, the development of high technology offers new growth opportunities that we can harness in our valley communities once again. I want to...

I recently visited the Nexus innovation hub at the University of Leeds, which does the things that my hon. Friend was just describing, with innovative spin-outs and companies genuinely innovating in really challenging areas. However, they struggle to access Government procurement because they do not have things like Cyber Essentials,...

I recently visited the Nexus innovation hub at the University of Leeds, which does the things that my hon. Friend was just describing, with innovative spin-outs and companies genuinely innovating in really challenging areas. However, they struggle to access Government procurement because they do not have things like Cyber Essentials,...

I am always happy to take interventions, but my hon. Friend seems to have written my speech for me, because I will develop that argument as I go along. I note he is from Leeds—Leeds pinch all of Sheffield Wednesday’s best managers, do they not, Mr Betts?

Spin-outs offer postgraduate students...

I am always happy to take interventions, but my hon. Friend seems to have written my speech for me, because I will develop that argument as I go along. I note he is from Leeds—Leeds pinch all of Sheffield Wednesday’s best managers, do they not, Mr Betts?

Spin-outs offer postgraduate students...