My Lords, I also find the Minister’s answer about the Type 26 build rate disappointing, particularly given how long it is before the first Type 26 comes into service. It will certainly see our frigate force level drop to being unacceptably low before the new ships come online. Will the Minister say what level our frigate numbers will sink to before the new ships become operational? That also includes the Type 31.

My Lords, I also find the Minister’s answer about the Type 26 build rate disappointing, particularly given how long it is before the first Type 26 comes into service. It will certainly see our frigate force level drop to being unacceptably low before the new ships come online. Will the Minister say what level our frigate numbers will sink to before the new ships become operational? That also includes the Type 31.

My Lords, given the length of time before the Type 45 numbers will be up to operational scratch, with concomitant effect on our destroyer frigate force levels, will the Minister say what is being done to improve the in-service dates of the Type 31 and Type 26, whose build rate is lamentably slow? Speeding it up will certainly help mitigate the force level problem.

My Lords, given the length of time before the Type 45 numbers will be up to operational scratch, with concomitant effect on our destroyer frigate force levels, will the Minister say what is being done to improve the in-service dates of the Type 31 and Type 26, whose build rate is lamentably slow? Speeding it up will certainly help mitigate the force level problem.

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that, notwithstanding Brexit, at the working level the relationships between our Armed Forces and those of other European countries, whether bilateral, trilateral or multilateral, are extremely strong and should be nurtured at all costs?

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that, notwithstanding Brexit, at the working level the relationships between our Armed Forces and those of other European countries, whether bilateral, trilateral or multilateral, are extremely strong and should be nurtured at all costs?

My Lords, can the Minister say how many countries have committed to acquiring the Type 26 and Type 31 frigates? How many ships are involved? Has this led to a drop in the unit price cost of those ships and will the foreign orders affect the in-service dates of the ships that are for the Royal Navy?

My Lords, can the Minister say how many countries have committed to acquiring the Type 26 and Type 31 frigates? How many ships are involved? Has this led to a drop in the unit price cost of those ships and will the foreign orders affect the in-service dates of the ships that are for the Royal Navy?

My Lords, the Government are to be commended for the robust stance taken last week in sanctioning HMS “Defender” to passage, perfectly legitimately, through the international separation zone waters past Crimea, and for us not to succumb to Russian bullying and lying. Does the Minister agree that we should be acting in a similarly robust way in the north, allowing our warships to operate in international waters in the Arctic and the Barents Sea and not allowing Russia to claim such waters as their private seas by default—which will be doubly important as the north-eastern passage to the Far East becomes more accessible? I feel that the Minister’s answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay of St Johns, was not sufficiently robust on that matter.

My Lords, the Government are to be commended for the robust stance taken last week in sanctioning HMS “Defender” to passage, perfectly legitimately, through the international separation zone waters past Crimea, and for us not to succumb to Russian bullying and lying. Does the Minister agree that we should be acting in a similarly robust way in the north, allowing our warships to operate in international waters in the Arctic and the Barents Sea and not allowing Russia to claim such waters as their private seas by default—which will be doubly important as the north-eastern passage to the Far East becomes more accessible? I feel that the Minister’s answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay of St Johns, was not sufficiently robust on that matter.

My Lords, I declare my interest as patron of the Submariners Association. The Minister’s Answer was welcome. Will she pay tribute to the crews of the current Vanguard class, who are having to work extraordinarily and unbelievably hard, with significant sacrifice for themselves and their families, to keep their ageing submarines going to ensure that the continuous at-sea deterrent is sustained? They will have to continue to do so for another 10 years until the Dreadnought class comes into operational service.

My Lords, I declare my interest as patron of the Submariners Association. The Minister’s Answer was welcome. Will she pay tribute to the crews of the current Vanguard class, who are having to work extraordinarily and unbelievably hard, with significant sacrifice for themselves and their families, to keep their ageing submarines going to ensure that the continuous at-sea deterrent is sustained? They will have to continue to do so for another 10 years until the Dreadnought class comes into operational service.

My Lords, the deployment of our carrier strike group next year is to be welcomed. If that is to include the Indo-Pacific, would the Minister confirm that the opportunity will be taken to refresh our ties with the five-power defence arrangements? Would she also agree that, if there are not already plans to do so, there would be great merit in establishing

links with the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, known as the Quad, consisting of the United States, Australia, Japan and India, and that, furthermore, we could act as a catalyst in bringing the FPDA and the Quad together, which would both be beneficial to our alliances in the region?

My Lords, the deployment of our carrier strike group next year is to be welcomed. If that is to include the Indo-Pacific, would the Minister confirm that the opportunity will be taken to refresh our ties with the five-power defence arrangements? Would she also agree that, if there are not already plans to do so, there would be great merit in establishing

links with the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, known as the Quad, consisting of the United States, Australia, Japan and India, and that, furthermore, we could act as a catalyst in bringing the FPDA and the Quad together, which would both be beneficial to our alliances in the region?

My Lords, while agreeing on the need to establish a sound relationship with China, does the Minister agree that it is of the utmost importance that we continue to exercise most robustly, through the Royal Navy among others, our right to freedom of navigation on the high seas in those waters of the South China Sea illegally claimed by China to be its own, in contravention of the United Nations Convention

on the Law of the Sea? Incidentally, that contravention was once again highlighted last Friday at the south-east Asian leaders conference.

My Lords, while agreeing on the need to establish a sound relationship with China, does the Minister agree that it is of the utmost importance that we continue to exercise most robustly, through the Royal Navy among others, our right to freedom of navigation on the high seas in those waters of the South China Sea illegally claimed by China to be its own, in contravention of the United Nations Convention

on the Law of the Sea? Incidentally, that contravention was once again highlighted last Friday at the south-east Asian leaders conference.

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord West, implied and as we have heard in this House on numerous occasions, the number of our destroyers and frigates is anorexic. This is exacerbated by the Type 45 problem. We embarked on an eight-ship, Type 26 frigate-building programme in 2017, but the first ship, “Glasgow”, will not be commissioned until 2027. Thereafter, a ship will appear every two years. Does the Minister agree that a 10-year build programme for a frigate—it took only nine years to build our carrier—and of some 24 years for all eight ships is completely unacceptable? This is a black mark against the Government and our shipbuilding industry.

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord West, implied and as we have heard in this House on numerous occasions, the number of our destroyers and frigates is anorexic. This is exacerbated by the Type 45 problem. We embarked on an eight-ship, Type 26 frigate-building programme in 2017, but the first ship, “Glasgow”, will not be commissioned until 2027. Thereafter, a ship will appear every two years. Does the Minister agree that a 10-year build programme for a frigate—it took only nine years to build our carrier—and of some 24 years for all eight ships is completely unacceptable? This is a black mark against the Government and our shipbuilding industry.

We have focused on the F-35, but we have other legacy aircraft in NATO that we still operate on our eastern flanks. Are they equally vulnerable?

We have focused on the F-35, but we have other legacy aircraft in NATO that we still operate on our eastern flanks. Are they equally vulnerable?

My Lords, amateurs talk tactics; professionals talk logistics. Notwithstanding the Minister’s reassuring words, the well-documented pressures and the level of risk in the defence budget are real. Can the Minister provide an assurance that the stock levels of the department’s weapon, ammunition and stores inventories will allow ships, planes and soldiers to deploy with the necessary resilience to conduct sustained operations?

My Lords, amateurs talk tactics; professionals talk logistics. Notwithstanding the Minister’s reassuring words, the well-documented pressures and the level of risk in the defence budget are real. Can the Minister provide an assurance that the stock levels of the department’s weapon, ammunition and stores inventories will allow ships, planes and soldiers to deploy with the necessary resilience to conduct sustained operations?

My Lords, does the Minister agree that one must be careful not to get seduced by the destroyers and frigates—much as I would like to see a bigger destroyer and frigate force? The Royal Navy consists of other vessels—for example, the important role of mine counter measures vessels in the Persian Gulf, and what our great RFA ships can do. They will all contribute to that statement that the Secretary of State made at RUSI. One should not focus purely on destroyers and frigates, much though I would like to do so on a day-to-day basis.

My Lords, does the Minister agree that one must be careful not to get seduced by the destroyers and frigates—much as I would like to see a bigger destroyer and frigate force? The Royal Navy consists of other vessels—for example, the important role of mine counter measures vessels in the Persian Gulf, and what our great RFA ships can do. They will all contribute to that statement that the Secretary of State made at RUSI. One should not focus purely on destroyers and frigates, much though I would like to do so on a day-to-day basis.

The Type 31 order seemed to have something of a derailment earlier this year. Will the Minister confirm that the original in-service stage is being held?

The Type 31 order seemed to have something of a derailment earlier this year. Will the Minister confirm that the original in-service stage is being held?

My Lords, does the Minister agree that China’s annexing of large chunks of the high seas is completely unacceptable? Does she further agree that, as a nation that depends on over 90% of our trade by sea, we should exercise freedom of the seas wherever it is challenged, and therefore that the Royal Navy’s endeavours in that respect should be applauded?

My Lords, does the Minister agree that China’s annexing of large chunks of the high seas is completely unacceptable? Does she further agree that, as a nation that depends on over 90% of our trade by sea, we should exercise freedom of the seas wherever it is challenged, and therefore that the Royal Navy’s endeavours in that respect should be applauded?

My Lords, the BASIC report suggests in two or three places that the Government’s commitment to the continuous at-sea deterrent may no longer have the same priority that it did. Will the Minister acknowledge the remarkable achievement of nearly 50 years of unbroken continuous at-sea deterrence, which is ongoing, and repeat to the House his unequivocal assurance that CASD will still have the Government’s highest priority?

My Lords, the BASIC report suggests in two or three places that the Government’s commitment to the continuous at-sea deterrent may no longer have the same priority that it did. Will the Minister acknowledge the remarkable achievement of nearly 50 years of unbroken continuous at-sea deterrence, which is ongoing, and repeat to the House his unequivocal assurance that CASD will still have the Government’s highest priority?

If the patrol vessels are to work in the EEZ, which would be highly desirable, there are of course multifarious parties and agencies that also work there—the Navy, the Border Force, customs, Defra, HMRC and so forth. Which government department has the overall lead on such matters as command and control, training and funding for the activities that will be done in the EEZ?

If the patrol vessels are to work in the EEZ, which would be highly desirable, there are of course multifarious parties and agencies that also work there—the Navy, the Border Force, customs, Defra, HMRC and so forth. Which government department has the overall lead on such matters as command and control, training and funding for the activities that will be done in the EEZ?

My Lords, does the Minister agree that if the Government are to continue to have global aspirations and global influence, the Royal Navy must train where, in the final analysis, it might have to fight? The oceanographic and climatic conditions in the Atlantic are not the same as in the South China Sea and the Pacific.

My Lords, does the Minister agree that if the Government are to continue to have global aspirations and global influence, the Royal Navy must train where, in the final analysis, it might have to fight? The oceanographic and climatic conditions in the Atlantic are not the same as in the South China Sea and the Pacific.

My Lords, the training budgets of all three services have been heavily reduced by savings measures, imperilling operational capability across our

Armed Forces. Anti-submarine warfare is an art form as much as it is a science, and sufficient training is absolutely critical. Will the Minister say whether anti-submarine warfare training has been affected by the cuts I have just mentioned and by the lack of manpower that is keeping some of our ASW specialist ships alongside?

My Lords, the training budgets of all three services have been heavily reduced by savings measures, imperilling operational capability across our

Armed Forces. Anti-submarine warfare is an art form as much as it is a science, and sufficient training is absolutely critical. Will the Minister say whether anti-submarine warfare training has been affected by the cuts I have just mentioned and by the lack of manpower that is keeping some of our ASW specialist ships alongside?

My Lords, if the Minister believes that there is no problem with the defence budget, why at the moment are illustrative savings being looked at, for example to close out an Army brigade, do away with the Army Air Corps, and completely undermine and shred our amphibious capability?

My Lords, if the Minister believes that there is no problem with the defence budget, why at the moment are illustrative savings being looked at, for example to close out an Army brigade, do away with the Army Air Corps, and completely undermine and shred our amphibious capability?

My Lords, I declare an interest as a past chairman of the RNLI. The International Maritime Rescue Federation has been looking at the vexed subject of how one retrieves hundreds if not thousands of people from a ship which has been evacuated on to the sea. Has it made any sensible progress and is it still working well with the IMO?

My Lords, I declare an interest as a past chairman of the RNLI. The International Maritime Rescue Federation has been looking at the vexed subject of how one retrieves hundreds if not thousands of people from a ship which has been evacuated on to the sea. Has it made any sensible progress and is it still working well with the IMO?