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My Lords, the specialist guidance on the management of non-coronavirus patients needing acute treatment, issued on 20 March, put senior decision-makers at the heart of triaging patients referred for admission. To assist them, what role would testing for Covid-19 play on admission, and what proposals are there to utilise the Nightingale hospitals as a step-down facility for Covid-19 patients, thus reducing their numbers in NHS hospitals and allowing those hospitals to deal with the backlog of cases?
My Lords, the specialist guidance on the management of non-coronavirus patients needing acute treatment, issued on 20 March, put senior decision-makers at the heart of triaging patients referred for admission. To assist them, what role would testing for Covid-19 play on admission, and what proposals are there to utilise the Nightingale hospitals as a step-down facility for Covid-19 patients, thus reducing their numbers in NHS hospitals and allowing those hospitals to deal with the backlog of cases?
My Lords, there was some interruption in hearing my noble friend’s question but, if I understood him correctly, the answer is that all patients are now
tested on entry to hospital. Until their test result has arrived, they are treated as though they have Covid-19 and isolated wherever possible.
My Lords, two years ago, Sir Simon Wessely, then president of the Royal College of Psychiatrists, identified a serious problem with psychiatric recruitment, particularly among trainees as the Minister has mentioned. As it takes five years to get a trainee through to becoming a doctor, and bearing in mind that we are nearing Brexit or the effects of it and that many doctors come from the European Union, what action are the Government taking now to deal with this problem?
My Lords, two years ago, Sir Simon Wessely, then president of the Royal College of Psychiatrists, identified a serious problem with psychiatric recruitment, particularly among trainees as the Minister has mentioned. As it takes five years to get a trainee through to becoming a doctor, and bearing in mind that we are nearing Brexit or the effects of it and that many doctors come from the European Union, what action are the Government taking now to deal with this problem?
I am grateful for my noble friend’s question. He is correct that Brexit is a challenge, but I draw his attention to the interim people plan, which is focused on the issue of psychiatry recruitment. It addresses pension tax concerns—a key hurdle for those later in their careers—and increasing university clinical placements, and it bolsters the workforce through greater international recruitment. I remind my noble friend that there were 2,000 more EU nationals working in the NHS in June 2018 than in June 2016.
My Lords, I declare an interest as a riparian owner. Abstraction is an issue in any area with reservoirs, and particularly with rivers designated as being of special scientific interest. Of equal concern is abstraction for commercial purposes to clean salads. In particular I point to Bakkavör, a company in Alresford, which imports salads from Europe and cleans them, and the water then goes back into the river system. My question to my noble friend the Minister is: what steps can we take to ensure that water that goes back into the river after cleaning processes is of the same quality as the water abstracted in the first place?
My Lords, I declare an interest as a riparian owner. Abstraction is an issue in any area with reservoirs, and particularly with rivers designated as being of special scientific interest. Of equal concern is abstraction for commercial purposes to clean salads. In particular I point to Bakkavör, a company in Alresford, which imports salads from Europe and cleans them, and the water then goes back into the river system. My question to my noble friend the Minister is: what steps can we take to ensure that water that goes back into the river after cleaning processes is of the same quality as the water abstracted in the first place?
My Lords, this goes back to the point about needing to ensure that we reduce abstraction and that we have only sustainable abstraction of water. On the principle that the polluter pays, we certainly need to ensure—and we do increasingly ensure—that people using water return it in better quality than they might do now.
My Lords, as has been pointed out, it is not about the time to treatment but the time to diagnosis. Clearly, early diagnosis is the key. In Europe, the outcome for pancreatic cancer is often better than in the UK because patients have access directly to specialist care, whereas we rely on our GPs to be the gatekeepers, and that is where the problem lies. What measures will be taken to ensure that patients can have access to specialist care much earlier?
My Lords, as has been pointed out, it is not about the time to treatment but the time to diagnosis. Clearly, early diagnosis is the key. In Europe, the outcome for pancreatic cancer is often better than in the UK because patients have access directly to specialist care, whereas we rely on our GPs to be the gatekeepers, and that is where the problem lies. What measures will be taken to ensure that patients can have access to specialist care much earlier?
My noble friend speaks with great wisdom on this topic, and he is absolutely right. I would point to two improvements that have happened in recent years. First, the NICE standard threshold for when GPs should make referrals has been lowered, so they ought to refer more often. Secondly, we are seeing a big increase in referrals to cancer specialists: there have been over 115% more referrals since 2010. We are starting to see much greater referrals from GPs to specialists.
Following the theme of alcohol, the Minister was kind enough to meet me and members of the Alcohol Health Alliance on 30 April. We stressed that accepting a minimum unit price, as in Scotland, would do much to remove alcohol—and, particularly, cheap alcohol—from vulnerable people, some of whom are responsible for the attacks to which we are referring. When will England accept a minimum unit price and implement it?
Following the theme of alcohol, the Minister was kind enough to meet me and members of the Alcohol Health Alliance on 30 April. We stressed that accepting a minimum unit price, as in Scotland, would do much to remove alcohol—and, particularly, cheap alcohol—from vulnerable people, some of whom are responsible for the attacks to which we are referring. When will England accept a minimum unit price and implement it?
I was delighted to meet my noble friend on this topic. I know he cares passionately about it. We have said—and I have said in this House before—that we are looking at the Scottish example with interest now that Scotland has gone ahead with it. There is a growing evidence base to demonstrate the
benefits of minimum unit pricing, but we want to see what transpires in Scotland before making any decisions about whether to move ahead.
My Lords, liver disease, unlike cancer, is the only major cause of premature death that has increased since 1970. As the Minister rightly says, the Scottish Government have this week introduced minimum unit pricing. Would the Minister be willing to meet me and the chairman of the Alcohol Health Alliance to discuss what we in this country can do to follow the Scottish lead?
My Lords, liver disease, unlike cancer, is the only major cause of premature death that has increased since 1970. As the Minister rightly says, the Scottish Government have this week introduced minimum unit pricing. Would the Minister be willing to meet me and the chairman of the Alcohol Health Alliance to discuss what we in this country can do to follow the Scottish lead?
I would be very happy to meet my noble friend and the colleague he mentioned.
My Lords, we need to do something to tackle this issue much more urgently as the total cost of the litigation in the pipeline is some £65 billion—half the NHS budget. Until and unless we do something about changing Section 2(4) of the relevant Act we will have a continuing problem with patients claiming for private care when they should have their care provided by the NHS.
My Lords, we need to do something to tackle this issue much more urgently as the total cost of the litigation in the pipeline is some £65 billion—half the NHS budget. Until and unless we do something about changing Section 2(4) of the relevant Act we will have a continuing problem with patients claiming for private care when they should have their care provided by the NHS.
I agree with my noble friend; this is an issue, not least because, when that Act was brought in, the NHS was a very different creature and did not offer the extensive range of care that it does now. We need to make sure that we are not effectively paying twice. However, this is a difficult and complex legal issue. It is important that we take our time to investigate how we tackle it properly so that those who are unfortunately affected by poor care are not put at a disadvantage for the rest of their lives.
My Lords, following on from the question about the role of general practice, and mindful of the fact that we recently combined the Department of Health with social care, is it perhaps not time to redefine the role of general practice to
ensure continuity of care between the two sectors and avoid some of the problems we saw in our A&E departments over the Christmas and new year period?
My Lords, following on from the question about the role of general practice, and mindful of the fact that we recently combined the Department of Health with social care, is it perhaps not time to redefine the role of general practice to
ensure continuity of care between the two sectors and avoid some of the problems we saw in our A&E departments over the Christmas and new year period?
That coming together of health services is obviously important. We share that knowledge and expertise through international health partnerships with some of the poorest countries in the world so that they can learn from it as well. But my noble friend is absolutely right to say that those first points of contact are essential in a good, functioning primary healthcare system, which was the Alma-Ata aspiration.
My Lords, the only way in which to increase staffing levels in anticipation of the flu epidemic is through agency staff, which is going to cost a huge amount of money. Surely, the better thing to do would be to ensure that all health staff are vaccinated so they are at least healthy when the epidemic hits us—if it does.
My Lords, the only way in which to increase staffing levels in anticipation of the flu epidemic is through agency staff, which is going to cost a huge amount of money. Surely, the better thing to do would be to ensure that all health staff are vaccinated so they are at least healthy when the epidemic hits us—if it does.
My noble friend talks with great authority on this issue and he is quite right. The NHS is offering all front-line health staff free vaccinations. NHS England has confirmed that it will also be paying for care workers in social care settings to get free jabs. Furthermore, we are now, for the first time, inoculating in school children aged between two and eight, who are sometimes known as “superspreaders”. This is to ensure that, if such an epidemic were to happen, we would be as well prepared as ever.
My Lords, the Lancet commission highlighted deficiencies in surgical care across the globe. Recent investment by the National Institute for Health Research, charities and the research councils has increased the number of clinical trials in the UK, particularly in surgery. Does the Minister support investment in surgical and clinical research to improve care in the UK and across the globe?
My Lords, the Lancet commission highlighted deficiencies in surgical care across the globe. Recent investment by the National Institute for Health Research, charities and the research councils has increased the number of clinical trials in the UK, particularly in surgery. Does the Minister support investment in surgical and clinical research to improve care in the UK and across the globe?
My Lords, we have an extraordinary record on clinical research, particularly on trials. In 2016 just under 700,000 patients in the UK were recruited for clinical trials, and the UK accounted for 29% of all trials that took place in the EU. So the story on clinical trials is a very good one and the NIHR is much to be complimented.
My Lords, in a recent survey the British Thoracic Society found that 72% of hospital patients who smoked were not asked if they wanted to
quit. Will my noble friend assure me that the promised tobacco control plan will ensure that hospital patients who smoke will get the support they need to quit?
My Lords, in a recent survey the British Thoracic Society found that 72% of hospital patients who smoked were not asked if they wanted to
quit. Will my noble friend assure me that the promised tobacco control plan will ensure that hospital patients who smoke will get the support they need to quit?
My noble friend makes an excellent point. Indeed, the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh has just started a campaign to encourage clinicians to help their patients to stop smoking, and making sure that that happens is clearly going to have benefits for the kind of major surgery that some of the people who are suffering severe effects of smoking will need to have.
My Lords, mindful of the fact that we have taken the decision to leave the European Union and realising that many of our nurses come from overseas, and more recently from Europe, surely the time to start increasing nursing numbers is now, to make sure that we deal with any shortfall that may come after 2020.
My Lords, mindful of the fact that we have taken the decision to leave the European Union and realising that many of our nurses come from overseas, and more recently from Europe, surely the time to start increasing nursing numbers is now, to make sure that we deal with any shortfall that may come after 2020.
My noble friend makes an excellent point. Currently, around 7% of nurses are EU nationals. There has not been a drop-off in the number of EU nationals joining the NHS workforce since the referendum; nevertheless, it is clearly sensible to reduce our reliance on overseas nurses each year. We are doing that through additional training places and through retention and return to work schemes.
My Lords, this subject has been debated in this House on many occasions and, as my noble and learned friend said, has been rejected. Should it ever be considered again, it is important that the medical profession be excluded. The majority of doctors do not wish to be associated with taking life. Their responsibility is to save lives. While it is possible that there are those who might volunteer to undertake such a task, it is important that it should not be legislated that the majority of doctors are required to undertake it.
My Lords, this subject has been debated in this House on many occasions and, as my noble and learned friend said, has been rejected. Should it ever be considered again, it is important that the medical profession be excluded. The majority of doctors do not wish to be associated with taking life. Their responsibility is to save lives. While it is possible that there are those who might volunteer to undertake such a task, it is important that it should not be legislated that the majority of doctors are required to undertake it.
I note what the noble Lord has said and understand the reasoning behind his observations. I can reiterate only that this Government do not intend at this time to legislate in respect of this matter.
As a surgeon, I had cause to cancel or delay operations on patients who were obese or were smokers, but those decisions were based on clinical grounds from the knowledge I had of the individual patient. Clinical commissioning groups can give guidance but they should not provide diktats. What assurance will the Minister give that clinical decisions will be left to those who have the best interests of the patient at heart and who know their patients?
As a surgeon, I had cause to cancel or delay operations on patients who were obese or were smokers, but those decisions were based on clinical grounds from the knowledge I had of the individual patient. Clinical commissioning groups can give guidance but they should not provide diktats. What assurance will the Minister give that clinical decisions will be left to those who have the best interests of the patient at heart and who know their patients?
The noble Lord has encapsulated well the recommendation of the report of the Royal College of Surgeons, which is that all decisions about individual patients should be taken on clinical grounds as they affect the particular patient.
My Lords, while the sugar tax for fizzy drinks is a regressive tax, the very people it would target stand to benefit from such a tax because, leaving aside obesity, which is a long-term problem, dental caries are a short-term problem. There is no doubt that sugary drinks are causing a massive amount of dental caries, the cost of which falls on the NHS, as these unfortunate children have to have dental extractions which will affect their well-being and quality of life for years to come.
My Lords, while the sugar tax for fizzy drinks is a regressive tax, the very people it would target stand to benefit from such a tax because, leaving aside obesity, which is a long-term problem, dental caries are a short-term problem. There is no doubt that sugary drinks are causing a massive amount of dental caries, the cost of which falls on the NHS, as these unfortunate children have to have dental extractions which will affect their well-being and quality of life for years to come.
My Lords, reduction of sugar is a critical part of the Government’s obesity strategy. It has been made clear by the reports of Public Health England, the McKinsey institute and others that there is no silver bullet. It is not just a question of passing a tax and getting the results that you wish to have. If a tax were to come in, it would be part of a whole range of other measures.
My Lords, does my noble friend agree with recommendation 3 in the report, which requires the establishment of liver units in district general hospitals, acting in a hub-and-spoke network with specialist hospitals? This is important to provide access to people, particularly in the north-west, where, sadly, there is very little access to specialist hepatology units.
My Lords, does my noble friend agree with recommendation 3 in the report, which requires the establishment of liver units in district general hospitals, acting in a hub-and-spoke network with specialist hospitals? This is important to provide access to people, particularly in the north-west, where, sadly, there is very little access to specialist hepatology units.
My Lords, the recommendations in the report about a hub-and-spoke approach, to which my noble friend refers, with district general hospitals having some hepatology services but being linked into a specialist centre are absolutely right. It is the right model; I have no doubt about that. We have established 22 operational networks for hepatitis C treatment, which are all linked into specialist treatment centres. We believe that that may be a model for the future.
My Lords, one category not included in the list is the independent sector treatment centres. Are these proving as cost-effective as we would like? If so, is it not time that NHS consultants have greater access to them to deal with their elective cases, many of which are often cancelled because of the need to bring in emergencies?
My Lords, one category not included in the list is the independent sector treatment centres. Are these proving as cost-effective as we would like? If so, is it not time that NHS consultants have greater access to them to deal with their elective cases, many of which are often cancelled because of the need to bring in emergencies?
My noble friend raises an interesting question about independent treatment centres, which are for elective cases, not emergencies. They are able to plan their case mix more accurately, and are much choosier about the case mix they take. They can be extremely efficient, and if they have the volumes coming through, they are. Because of the case mix they take, they ought to be able to deliver significant cost advantages over providing such surgical care in a normal NHS hospital. The argument for ring-fencing orthopaedic procedures, for example, is overwhelming in terms both of cost and the quality of care delivered.
My Lords, the Minister is absolutely right in referring to the research in Milton Keynes. As far as prostate cancer is concerned, a man’s best friend probably is his dog. However, there is no doubt that the molecular markers can be detected in urine, and this may be the way to go in future research. It needs to be directed in that way because just a simple dipstick might well be able to detect the markers. If it is possible to detect prostate cancers using dogs, will the Government be prepared to fund such research and carry out a proper controlled clinical trial?
My Lords, the Minister is absolutely right in referring to the research in Milton Keynes. As far as prostate cancer is concerned, a man’s best friend probably is his dog. However, there is no doubt that the molecular markers can be detected in urine, and this may be the way to go in future research. It needs to be directed in that way because just a simple dipstick might well be able to detect the markers. If it is possible to detect prostate cancers using dogs, will the Government be prepared to fund such research and carry out a proper controlled clinical trial?
Clearly, molecular diagnostics is a growing field and will have a hugely important role to play in diagnosing many cancers. This was certainly a recommendation of the cancer task force led by Harpal Kumar. We are not by any means saying that we should pursue dogs at the expense of molecular diagnostics, just that we should try every opportunity. There seems to be some evidence regarding the number of false positives—for example, the use of dogs to sniff urine is considerably more accurate than more conventional forms of detecting cancer. We would not therefore want to rule out the use of dogs by pursuing solely molecular diagnostics.