My Lords, first, I apologise to the House for sounding like a broken record, but does my noble friend agree with me that the Benches opposite should have a bit of humility? When they were in government, from 2010 to 2016, they cut the defence budget by 16%, made members of our Armed Forces compulsorily redundant, leading to the smallest standing Army since Napoleonic times, and, in collusion with their Liberal Democrat coalition partners, delayed the implementation of the replacement of the nuclear deterrent, adding billions to the cost. Does my noble friend also agree that the choice they are putting forward between defence and welfare is a false one and that they need to explain how they would get money out of the welfare budget, not in the future but today, to reinforce the defence budget?

My Lords, first, I apologise to the House for sounding like a broken record, but does my noble friend agree with me that the Benches opposite should have a bit of humility? When they were in government, from 2010 to 2016, they cut the defence budget by 16%, made members of our Armed Forces compulsorily redundant, leading to the smallest standing Army since Napoleonic times, and, in collusion with their Liberal Democrat coalition partners, delayed the implementation of the replacement of the nuclear deterrent, adding billions to the cost. Does my noble friend also agree that the choice they are putting forward between defence and welfare is a false one and that they need to explain how they would get money out of the welfare budget, not in the future but today, to reinforce the defence budget?

My Lords, the situation we face in Ukraine is nothing new. In 2014, Russia annexed Crimea, when the party opposite was slashing the defence budget by 16%. Likewise, the problem we have now with our nuclear deterrent is down to the Liberal Democrats, who could not make their mind up...

My Lords, the situation we face in Ukraine is nothing new. In 2014, Russia annexed Crimea, when the party opposite was slashing the defence budget by 16%. Likewise, the problem we have now with our nuclear deterrent is down to the Liberal Democrats, who could not make their mind up...

My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree with me that, in this debate on the level of defence expenditure, we should look at how we got to where we are today? Between 2010 and 2017, from the Tory-led coalition Government onwards, the then Government cut the defence budget by 16% and made people compulsorily redundant, leading to the smallest standing Army since Napoleonic times. Because of the Liberal Democrat veto, the then Government delayed the replacement of the Trident nuclear deterrent, leading to extra costs today. Does my noble friend agree with me that, in this debate, the Opposition should be a little humbler in their approach by taking some responsibility for why we have got to where we are today?

My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree with me that, in this debate on the level of defence expenditure, we should look at how we got to where we are today? Between 2010 and 2017, from the Tory-led coalition Government onwards, the then Government cut the defence budget by 16% and made people compulsorily redundant, leading to the smallest standing Army since Napoleonic times. Because of the Liberal Democrat veto, the then Government delayed the replacement of the Trident nuclear deterrent, leading to extra costs today. Does my noble friend agree with me that, in this debate, the Opposition should be a little humbler in their approach by taking some responsibility for why we have got to where we are today?

My Lords, I begin by declaring an interest in that, like the Minister, I own a Jaguar Land Rover car. The Minister said that government procurement should be competitive, but in France or Germany, for example, no government Minister would get in a foreign-made car. What more can the Government do centrally on procurement, but also in insisting, for example, that local authorities and police forces buy British?

My Lords, I begin by declaring an interest in that, like the Minister, I own a Jaguar Land Rover car. The Minister said that government procurement should be competitive, but in France or Germany, for example, no government Minister would get in a foreign-made car. What more can the Government do centrally on procurement, but also in insisting, for example, that local authorities and police forces buy British?

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Lancaster, mentioned the Gurkhas. Our thoughts are with all those who serve in British forces and with their families in Nepal. Could the Minister say what support is being given to the Gurkha Welfare Trust and other organisations that support Gurkha veterans in Nepal?

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Lancaster, mentioned the Gurkhas. Our thoughts are with all those who serve in British forces and with their families in Nepal. Could the Minister say what support is being given to the Gurkha Welfare Trust and other organisations that support Gurkha veterans in Nepal?

I begin my speech with one thought in my mind: the 97 individuals who lost their lives on 15 April 1989 at Hillsborough, and their families and friends. It is through the tenacious campaign

of those families and friends that we are here today. What occurred on 15 April 1989...

I begin my speech with one thought in my mind: the 97 individuals who lost their lives on 15 April 1989 at Hillsborough, and their families and friends. It is through the tenacious campaign

of those families and friends that we are here today. What occurred on 15 April 1989...

My Lords, I too welcome my noble friend back to her rightful position. She talked about people working hard to save for their pensions. They include pensioners who worked at Nissan in the north-east. Many now find themselves in very dire straits, because for those who accumulated in a pension scheme before 1997, the pension trustees and company are no longer increasing it along with inflation, so those pensioners are now finding the value of their pensions diminishing. Is this something that the Government could look at?

My Lords, I too welcome my noble friend back to her rightful position. She talked about people working hard to save for their pensions. They include pensioners who worked at Nissan in the north-east. Many now find themselves in very dire straits, because for those who accumulated in a pension scheme before 1997, the pension trustees and company are no longer increasing it along with inflation, so those pensioners are now finding the value of their pensions diminishing. Is this something that the Government could look at?

My Lords, local shoots are important to many local rural economies. I would be interested to know the view of my noble friend the Minister on the position that National England takes in doing economic impact studies on the effects of its policies on local farming communities.

My Lords, local shoots are important to many local rural economies. I would be interested to know the view of my noble friend the Minister on the position that National England takes in doing economic impact studies on the effects of its policies on local farming communities.

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that AI is going to be transformational, but the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Houghton, raises a very important point about warfare, where it is going to be transformational and not necessarily for the good. I hear what my noble friend says about the MoD, but this will have to be approached on an international basis. We also have to recognise that some of our adversaries will not be concerned about regulation. Is that not a challenge that we should face now?

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that AI is going to be transformational, but the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Houghton, raises a very important point about warfare, where it is going to be transformational and not necessarily for the good. I hear what my noble friend says about the MoD, but this will have to be approached on an international basis. We also have to recognise that some of our adversaries will not be concerned about regulation. Is that not a challenge that we should face now?

Sir John Parker produced his report on national shipbuilding policy in 2017. It was adapted by the then Government, reviewed in 2022 and adopted by the incoming Labour Government. The Minister’s own department has made some progress towards ensuring that there is a throughput of work in UK shipyards. What more can be done to ensure that departments such as the Department for Transport, which is currently looking at providing ships for Trinity House to be put abroad, and the Home Office, which is considering putting its Border Force cutters abroad, do not use only shipyards subsidised by the national Governments in those countries that farm out sub- contracted work to the Far East?

Sir John Parker produced his report on national shipbuilding policy in 2017. It was adapted by the then Government, reviewed in 2022 and adopted by the incoming Labour Government. The Minister’s own department has made some progress towards ensuring that there is a throughput of work in UK shipyards. What more can be done to ensure that departments such as the Department for Transport, which is currently looking at providing ships for Trinity House to be put abroad, and the Home Office, which is considering putting its Border Force cutters abroad, do not use only shipyards subsidised by the national Governments in those countries that farm out sub- contracted work to the Far East?

To ask His Majesty’s Government what progress they have made towards implementing the National Shipbuilding Strategy.

To ask His Majesty’s Government what progress they have made towards implementing the National Shipbuilding Strategy.

My Lords, a central tenet of the UK’s national shipbuilding policy is that we have a drumbeat of orders through UK shipyards, recognising that 38p of every pound put in by the taxpayer comes back directly in tax and national insurance. Can my noble friend explain why the Department for Transport is considering offshoring the replacements for Trinity House vessels and the Home Office is considering placing orders in Holland for patrol vessels? Much of that work will not be done in Europe but will be subcontracted to the Far East. Have these departments somehow not got the memo from the Treasury?

My Lords, a central tenet of the UK’s national shipbuilding policy is that we have a drumbeat of orders through UK shipyards, recognising that 38p of every pound put in by the taxpayer comes back directly in tax and national insurance. Can my noble friend explain why the Department for Transport is considering offshoring the replacements for Trinity House vessels and the Home Office is considering placing orders in Holland for patrol vessels? Much of that work will not be done in Europe but will be subcontracted to the Far East. Have these departments somehow not got the memo from the Treasury?

I concur—and I am on the record as saying—that the defence investment plan needs the money: we need to get to 3% as quickly as possible. But does the noble Earl also agree that the coalition and Conservative Governments between 2010 and 2017 in fact cut the defence budget by...

I concur—and I am on the record as saying—that the defence investment plan needs the money: we need to get to 3% as quickly as possible. But does the noble Earl also agree that the coalition and Conservative Governments between 2010 and 2017 in fact cut the defence budget by...

Crimea?

Crimea?

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for the amendments in their names. It is timely to have a debate and to keep raising—as I know the noble Lord, Lord Alton, does regularly—the threat we face from China. The ISC in its China report...

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for the amendments in their names. It is timely to have a debate and to keep raising—as I know the noble Lord, Lord Alton, does regularly—the threat we face from China. The ISC in its China report...

My Lords, this is an appalling case, but some of the themes in it are common to other scandals, including the Post Office scandal: people being ignored, people not knowing how to complain and the system basically coming together to protect itself rather than representing and identifying failings. I accept...

My Lords, this is an appalling case, but some of the themes in it are common to other scandals, including the Post Office scandal: people being ignored, people not knowing how to complain and the system basically coming together to protect itself rather than representing and identifying failings. I accept...

To ask His Majesty's Government what role the Treasury has taken in the procurement of vessels for Trinity House.

To ask His Majesty's Government what role the Treasury has taken in the procurement of vessels for Trinity House.

My Lords, I have been talking rubbish for many years. This is not just a blight on people’s neighbourhoods but an environmental time bomb ticking away in many communities. It is also a driver of organised crime, with the money used for other nefarious activities. The last Government set up the Joint Unit for Waste Crime. My noble friend just referred to more money for the Environment Agency. Frankly, the Environment Agency is a waste of time on this. It does not have an enforcement culture, and the fact that the Joint Unit for Waste Crime has not secured any successful prosecutions so far shows that it is not working. I urge my noble friend to pull the various agencies across government together to tackle this. Without a Minister forcing this through with vigour, not just closing legislative loopholes that need to be closed but creating an effective culture of enforcement, nothing will happen.

My Lords, I have been talking rubbish for many years. This is not just a blight on people’s neighbourhoods but an environmental time bomb ticking away in many communities. It is also a driver of organised crime, with the money used for other nefarious activities. The last Government set up the Joint Unit for Waste Crime. My noble friend just referred to more money for the Environment Agency. Frankly, the Environment Agency is a waste of time on this. It does not have an enforcement culture, and the fact that the Joint Unit for Waste Crime has not secured any successful prosecutions so far shows that it is not working. I urge my noble friend to pull the various agencies across government together to tackle this. Without a Minister forcing this through with vigour, not just closing legislative loopholes that need to be closed but creating an effective culture of enforcement, nothing will happen.

I welcome the Bill. The fact that we need it less than three years after the passing of the National Security Act demonstrates the evolving threat that this country faces.

In 2020 the Intelligence and Security Committee, which I chair, published its ground-breaking Russia report. I gently remind the noble Lord,...

I welcome the Bill. The fact that we need it less than three years after the passing of the National Security Act demonstrates the evolving threat that this country faces.

In 2020 the Intelligence and Security Committee, which I chair, published its ground-breaking Russia report. I gently remind the noble Lord,...

To ask His Majesty's Government what is the number of civil servants employed in the Lords' Minister's office in the Ministry of Defence; and what are their grades.

To ask His Majesty's Government what is the number of civil servants employed in the Lords' Minister's office in the Ministry of Defence; and what are their grades.