My Lords, it is extremely important that the transition between primary and secondary school is as smooth for children and well supported as possible. It is a traumatic time for everybody. If schools have broken up, teachers have no opportunity to support children who have not done particularly well, children with special needs and children with disadvantage. Secondary schools also have less time to consider the provisions they need to make. It is an extremely serious issue, and the Minister is obviously taking it very seriously. Is the review going to look at the options for outsourcing, and even whether there is capacity within the department to take it back in house and do it from the department’s point of view?

My Lords, it is extremely important that the transition between primary and secondary school is as smooth for children and well supported as possible. It is a traumatic time for everybody. If schools have broken up, teachers have no opportunity to support children who have not done particularly well, children with special needs and children with disadvantage. Secondary schools also have less time to consider the provisions they need to make. It is an extremely serious issue, and the Minister is obviously taking it very seriously. Is the review going to look at the options for outsourcing, and even whether there is capacity within the department to take it back in house and do it from the department’s point of view?

My noble friend Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe has already referred to the work of the committee in 2010-11. One of the recommendations—and there were quite a few that were not implemented—was that the House start on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays at 2 pm. That was considered a step far too far in 2010. Fifteen years on, can the Leader tell us whether the time might be ripe now, finally, for looking at and rethinking the time the House may start its business and maybe finding a way for us to use our time and expertise more effectively?

My noble friend Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe has already referred to the work of the committee in 2010-11. One of the recommendations—and there were quite a few that were not implemented—was that the House start on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays at 2 pm. That was considered a step far too far in 2010. Fifteen years on, can the Leader tell us whether the time might be ripe now, finally, for looking at and rethinking the time the House may start its business and maybe finding a way for us to use our time and expertise more effectively?

My Lords, it is good to hear that there is real awareness of the issues caused by this. It is one of the most acute problems in the whole provision of social care, and it falls hard on unpaid carers when they do not even know how or who to ask for help. It has been diagnosed many times as a big issue. There used to be co-ordinator discharge people in hospitals who would help with this process. Are there still such posts? The news about the LGA work is welcome in relation to co-ordination when it counts and support for unpaid carers, who are the experts here. They are not passive arbitrators; they need to have their own knowledge and expertise recognised in this process. Is there provision at the hospital level for this?

My Lords, it is good to hear that there is real awareness of the issues caused by this. It is one of the most acute problems in the whole provision of social care, and it falls hard on unpaid carers when they do not even know how or who to ask for help. It has been diagnosed many times as a big issue. There used to be co-ordinator discharge people in hospitals who would help with this process. Are there still such posts? The news about the LGA work is welcome in relation to co-ordination when it counts and support for unpaid carers, who are the experts here. They are not passive arbitrators; they need to have their own knowledge and expertise recognised in this process. Is there provision at the hospital level for this?

My Lords, it is obvious that early testing for heart valve disease is an exemplary form of preventive medicine, which is where we all need to get to. The House owes my noble friend gratitude for organising heart valve testing through the Heart Valve Voice, which was extremely successful. Does my noble friend agree with me that, because of the absence of routine testing, we should look for opportunities to link heart valve testing with the other sorts of routine testing where there is a captive audience? These could include, for example, occasions when people go for cholesterol testing or possibly even flu vaccination, which are becoming more routine? If we could get that in operation at an early stage, it could make a significant difference.

My Lords, it is obvious that early testing for heart valve disease is an exemplary form of preventive medicine, which is where we all need to get to. The House owes my noble friend gratitude for organising heart valve testing through the Heart Valve Voice, which was extremely successful. Does my noble friend agree with me that, because of the absence of routine testing, we should look for opportunities to link heart valve testing with the other sorts of routine testing where there is a captive audience? These could include, for example, occasions when people go for cholesterol testing or possibly even flu vaccination, which are becoming more routine? If we could get that in operation at an early stage, it could make a significant difference.

My Lords, I thank the Chief Whip. I am very interested in what the noble Baroness has said about the range of initiatives, and very glad that she is talking to the rest of the heritage sector. The question that was raised, however, was about the strategic direction and need for systematic and scaled-up investment on a credible and systematic basis in terms of heritage skills. Although we need the skills to bring the historic environment up to scratch and to make the most of it, whether we are repurposing buildings or restoring them, this is not a niche issue. These skills are transferable into the whole of the construction economy, and we desperately need a lot of additional quality in that sector as well. Can the Minister give me some assurance that there is an endgame here where we will see a significant increase in the quality of apprenticeships and other qualification routes, whereby we will build our capacity to do these jobs over the next decade?

My Lords, I thank the Chief Whip. I am very interested in what the noble Baroness has said about the range of initiatives, and very glad that she is talking to the rest of the heritage sector. The question that was raised, however, was about the strategic direction and need for systematic and scaled-up investment on a credible and systematic basis in terms of heritage skills. Although we need the skills to bring the historic environment up to scratch and to make the most of it, whether we are repurposing buildings or restoring them, this is not a niche issue. These skills are transferable into the whole of the construction economy, and we desperately need a lot of additional quality in that sector as well. Can the Minister give me some assurance that there is an endgame here where we will see a significant increase in the quality of apprenticeships and other qualification routes, whereby we will build our capacity to do these jobs over the next decade?

My noble friend the Minister will recognise that we have to reinvent the high street. We recently had a Built Environment Select Committee report on this, which set out a number of different policies through which this can be done. One of the most successful and easily within reach is to make sure that we have more public services, including diagnostic centres and housing offices. People are now almost inevitably directed to digital centres for those things, yet they are desperately keen to talk to people instead. Having argued with my own local council about bins recently, I know how relieved I was to talk to somebody who actually knew what a bin was. All this can be done easily, and it would revitalise the high street in a way that would benefit community members of all ages.

My noble friend the Minister will recognise that we have to reinvent the high street. We recently had a Built Environment Select Committee report on this, which set out a number of different policies through which this can be done. One of the most successful and easily within reach is to make sure that we have more public services, including diagnostic centres and housing offices. People are now almost inevitably directed to digital centres for those things, yet they are desperately keen to talk to people instead. Having argued with my own local council about bins recently, I know how relieved I was to talk to somebody who actually knew what a bin was. All this can be done easily, and it would revitalise the high street in a way that would benefit community members of all ages.

My Lords, I am grateful for that very positive Answer. I do not think anyone in the House underestimates the personal and professional concern the Minister has with reducing reoffending, which is why he is probably as concerned as the noble Lord, Lord Hain, and I that four out of every 10 prisoners still reoffend. Can he comment on that incidence? It seems that one of the problems is that universal credit is a digital benefit, and prison restrictions on computers mean that prisoners cannot easily access computers to make benefit claims for housing or jobs, for example, until they are released. In addition, they have to provide a verifiable address, an email address and a bank account. Is it not possible for the DWP and prison staff to get together to sort out these details well in advance so that when prisoners are released they can access the benefits to which they are entitled and get help with housing and jobs? It seems to me that otherwise we are in a situation where this is going to go on indefinitely because they are bound to drift back, at great cost to themselves and to us, into reoffending.

My Lords, I am grateful for that very positive Answer. I do not think anyone in the House underestimates the personal and professional concern the Minister has with reducing reoffending, which is why he is probably as concerned as the noble Lord, Lord Hain, and I that four out of every 10 prisoners still reoffend. Can he comment on that incidence? It seems that one of the problems is that universal credit is a digital benefit, and prison restrictions on computers mean that prisoners cannot easily access computers to make benefit claims for housing or jobs, for example, until they are released. In addition, they have to provide a verifiable address, an email address and a bank account. Is it not possible for the DWP and prison staff to get together to sort out these details well in advance so that when prisoners are released they can access the benefits to which they are entitled and get help with housing and jobs? It seems to me that otherwise we are in a situation where this is going to go on indefinitely because they are bound to drift back, at great cost to themselves and to us, into reoffending.

My Lords, for some years now planning departments have been hollowed out, specialist planners and experienced planners have resigned and there is a critical need to introduce more planners to make all the housing ambitions realistic. Can the Minister tell us what the Government’s policy is towards recruiting and accelerating planning specialists, so that we will see renewed energy in the planning system in terms of applications?

My Lords, for some years now planning departments have been hollowed out, specialist planners and experienced planners have resigned and there is a critical need to introduce more planners to make all the housing ambitions realistic. Can the Minister tell us what the Government’s policy is towards recruiting and accelerating planning specialists, so that we will see renewed energy in the planning system in terms of applications?

My Lords, it is very good news about investment in social housing. The role of the housing associations will be critical, obviously. The noble Baroness mentioned the role of the New Towns Taskforce. Can she update us on when we can expect the report? I think we can all agree that it is summer already.

My Lords, it is very good news about investment in social housing. The role of the housing associations will be critical, obviously. The noble Baroness mentioned the role of the New Towns Taskforce. Can she update us on when we can expect the report? I think we can all agree that it is summer already.

Does the Minister agree with me that, when we audit the arts in simply economic terms, we undervalue them hugely? The value of the arts goes so much towards our social capital, our social well-being and our cultural health. Is the DCMS preparing an audit that will enable us to see this in its full dimension, so that when we do get a coherent arts policy, we will be able to judge how it impacts on the community, on individuals and on social health and well-being?

Does the Minister agree with me that, when we audit the arts in simply economic terms, we undervalue them hugely? The value of the arts goes so much towards our social capital, our social well-being and our cultural health. Is the DCMS preparing an audit that will enable us to see this in its full dimension, so that when we do get a coherent arts policy, we will be able to judge how it impacts on the community, on individuals and on social health and well-being?

My Lords, can the Minister tell us what progress has been made on addressing the problem faced by many unpaid carers who have been penalised, through no fault of their own, for having been paid too much because of technical failures in DWP? Are we making progress on addressing those very serious issues?

My Lords, can the Minister tell us what progress has been made on addressing the problem faced by many unpaid carers who have been penalised, through no fault of their own, for having been paid too much because of technical failures in DWP? Are we making progress on addressing those very serious issues?

My Lords, can the Minister give the House an assurance that the review will be done with greater care, greater discrimination and greater consultation than the disastrous review of 2010 by the coalition Government? Then, a random, comprehensive list of arm’s-length bodies was put in a schedule to a Bill. This then had to be rescued by this House in all the work we did to mitigate damage and save that Government from themselves. Can the Minister give me an assurance that the essential work of public bodies will be recognised and contained?

My Lords, can the Minister give the House an assurance that the review will be done with greater care, greater discrimination and greater consultation than the disastrous review of 2010 by the coalition Government? Then, a random, comprehensive list of arm’s-length bodies was put in a schedule to a Bill. This then had to be rescued by this House in all the work we did to mitigate damage and save that Government from themselves. Can the Minister give me an assurance that the essential work of public bodies will be recognised and contained?

My Lords, does the Minister agree—I am sure she does—that the historic environment is an enormous social and economic asset to this country? Sometimes we overlook it because we are so familiar with it, but it is particularly important in social regeneration, no matter the community, which

is why it was part of the previous Government’s levelling- up programme. How will our Government optimise all the benefits that the historic environment can bring, particularly in the context of the growth agenda?

My Lords, does the Minister agree—I am sure she does—that the historic environment is an enormous social and economic asset to this country? Sometimes we overlook it because we are so familiar with it, but it is particularly important in social regeneration, no matter the community, which

is why it was part of the previous Government’s levelling- up programme. How will our Government optimise all the benefits that the historic environment can bring, particularly in the context of the growth agenda?

My Lords, the noble Lord was kind enough to reference the Select Committee report. I think he would agree with me that the value of that report was that we were able to reveal the extraordinary voices of those with lived experience and the many unpaid carers who live such very hard but dignified lives. I have great confidence from what the Minister has just said that the Government will listen to those voices, because they know that there is no quick fix. This is a hugely complex problem, and the fair pay agreement is a very important first step. I have great ambitions, as we set out in that report, for a coherent and systemic change in the aspirations that we hold for social care, as well as the practical delivery. I hope the Minister shares those.

My Lords, the noble Lord was kind enough to reference the Select Committee report. I think he would agree with me that the value of that report was that we were able to reveal the extraordinary voices of those with lived experience and the many unpaid carers who live such very hard but dignified lives. I have great confidence from what the Minister has just said that the Government will listen to those voices, because they know that there is no quick fix. This is a hugely complex problem, and the fair pay agreement is a very important first step. I have great ambitions, as we set out in that report, for a coherent and systemic change in the aspirations that we hold for social care, as well as the practical delivery. I hope the Minister shares those.

My Lords, the noble Lord opposite asked a legitimate question—how poorer areas, which are benefiting hugely because they have universities in their midst, are likely to be affected if the number of overseas students drops and the university becomes in a more precarious and even more fragile state. This morning, on the radio, one university was cited as having a drop of 40% in its overseas students over the past year. How will that affect the university and the community it serves?

My Lords, the noble Lord opposite asked a legitimate question—how poorer areas, which are benefiting hugely because they have universities in their midst, are likely to be affected if the number of overseas students drops and the university becomes in a more precarious and even more fragile state. This morning, on the radio, one university was cited as having a drop of 40% in its overseas students over the past year. How will that affect the university and the community it serves?

My Lords, on the statistics, can the noble Viscount tell us how many people owe more than £20,000? When he talks about responsibility, will he agree that the problem is that we have another instance where the information technology system has got away from human judgment? The IT system does not trigger action, so carers may wait months and months to be told that they owe significant amounts. The evidence now suggests that one of the effects of this is that some carers are not going to claim carer’s allowance because it is too risky. They are facing so much stress and this is one element of stress that they simply cannot handle.

My Lords, on the statistics, can the noble Viscount tell us how many people owe more than £20,000? When he talks about responsibility, will he agree that the problem is that we have another instance where the information technology system has got away from human judgment? The IT system does not trigger action, so carers may wait months and months to be told that they owe significant amounts. The evidence now suggests that one of the effects of this is that some carers are not going to claim carer’s allowance because it is too risky. They are facing so much stress and this is one element of stress that they simply cannot handle.

Lords motion to take note of the importance of good quality early years education provision and environments, particularly since the COVID-19 pandemic. Agreed to on question.

Lords motion to take note of the importance of good quality early years education provision and environments, particularly since the COVID-19 pandemic. Agreed to on question.

Lords motion to take note of the report of the Adult Social Care Committee on A “gloriously ordinary life’’: spotlight on adult social care (HL 99). Agreed to on question.

Lords motion to take note of the report of the Adult Social Care Committee on A “gloriously ordinary life’’: spotlight on adult social care (HL 99). Agreed to on question.

Does the noble Baroness agree with me—I am sure she does—that the creative industries in this country generate £109 billion a year and are 5% of our GDP? Does she agree that anything that is done through funding, or through language that attempts to create a false dichotomy between creativity in science and in the arts—or that talks about low value, as opposed to high value—is damaging to creativity as a whole and to our ability, as a country, to produce the innovation and cultural vitality that we need across the whole spectrum, whether it is in the arts or the sciences?

Does the noble Baroness agree with me—I am sure she does—that the creative industries in this country generate £109 billion a year and are 5% of our GDP? Does she agree that anything that is done through funding, or through language that attempts to create a false dichotomy between creativity in science and in the arts—or that talks about low value, as opposed to high value—is damaging to creativity as a whole and to our ability, as a country, to produce the innovation and cultural vitality that we need across the whole spectrum, whether it is in the arts or the sciences?

In the light of comments from across the House, what progress does the Minister think we are making towards us becoming a global science superpower, and when does he think we might actually become such a thing? [Laughter.]

In the light of comments from across the House, what progress does the Minister think we are making towards us becoming a global science superpower, and when does he think we might actually become such a thing? [Laughter.]