To ask His Majesty's Government what discussions they have had with the National Federation of SubPostmasters concerning the removal of DVLA services from Post Offices.

To ask His Majesty's Government what discussions they have had with the National Federation of SubPostmasters concerning the removal of DVLA services from Post Offices.

To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, whether he has had discussions with the National Federation of Subpostmasters on pay.

To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, whether he has had discussions with the National Federation of Subpostmasters on pay.

To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, what assessment he has made of the extent to which the interests of sub-postmasters are being effectively represented by the National Federation of Subpostmastes in the current pay consultation.

To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, what assessment he has made of the extent to which the interests of sub-postmasters are being effectively represented by the National Federation of Subpostmastes in the current pay consultation.

To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, what assessment he has made of the potential merits of adding the National Association of Sub-Postmasters to his Department's industry group.

To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, what assessment he has made of the potential merits of adding the National Association of Sub-Postmasters to his Department's industry group.

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Horizon settlement and future governance of Post Office Ltd.

Innocent people jailed; individuals having their good name and livelihoods taken away from them; the full use of the state and its finances to persecute individuals. Those are all characteristics of a totalitarian or...

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Horizon settlement and future governance of Post Office Ltd.

Innocent people jailed; individuals having their good name and livelihoods taken away from them; the full use of the state and its finances to persecute individuals. Those are all characteristics of a totalitarian or...

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate. Is not the other scandal in this that the courts time and again failed the victims? In the prosecutions that were taken forward by the Post Office, the courts found in favour of the Post Office, despite it being...

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate. Is not the other scandal in this that the courts time and again failed the victims? In the prosecutions that were taken forward by the Post Office, the courts found in favour of the Post Office, despite it being...

I will come back to that, which is something that I think my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) will refer to in his contribution.

The board minutes from 1999 show that the Post Office knew there were bugs in the system and software problems. It...

I will come back to that, which is something that I think my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) will refer to in his contribution.

The board minutes from 1999 show that the Post Office knew there were bugs in the system and software problems. It...

It has also come to light that the people who were fixing the system from behind the scenes, as the right hon. Gentleman mentioned, and who could go in and balance the tills as it were, were incentivised and paid to be speedy and quickly fix the issues, which made...

It has also come to light that the people who were fixing the system from behind the scenes, as the right hon. Gentleman mentioned, and who could go in and balance the tills as it were, were incentivised and paid to be speedy and quickly fix the issues, which made...

It was even worse than that: for many years the Post Office denied that that could ever be done. It was only in 2011, after campaigning by me and others,

that the Post Office had the forensic accountants Second Sight take a look, and it discovered exactly what the hon....

It was even worse than that: for many years the Post Office denied that that could ever be done. It was only in 2011, after campaigning by me and others,

that the Post Office had the forensic accountants Second Sight take a look, and it discovered exactly what the hon....

My right hon. Friend is outlining a litany of maladministration at the very least. Have any individuals at management level in either at Post Office Ltd or Fujitsu ever been held accountable for this?

My right hon. Friend is outlining a litany of maladministration at the very least. Have any individuals at management level in either at Post Office Ltd or Fujitsu ever been held accountable for this?

I shall come to that, which is a very good point. The complete opposite: most have been promoted or, in one case, appointed as a Government adviser when she left the Post Office.

That denial then led the postmasters to get the group action together, with 555 taking the Post Office...

I shall come to that, which is a very good point. The complete opposite: most have been promoted or, in one case, appointed as a Government adviser when she left the Post Office.

That denial then led the postmasters to get the group action together, with 555 taking the Post Office...

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his excellent speech and his stoical determination in trying to get to the bottom of this. Is he also aware that the head of Fujitsu UK is now working in the Cabinet Office?

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his excellent speech and his stoical determination in trying to get to the bottom of this. Is he also aware that the head of Fujitsu UK is now working in the Cabinet Office?

Maybe she fulfils the role of the Pharisee in that parable. Does this not also speak to a deeper problem in our society, where relentlessly, time after time, the great and the good look after each other and hand out these positions to each other, irrespective of whether they have...

Maybe she fulfils the role of the Pharisee in that parable. Does this not also speak to a deeper problem in our society, where relentlessly, time after time, the great and the good look after each other and hand out these positions to each other, irrespective of whether they have...

It is, but how could somebody be given a CBE when this scandal was out there? How could somebody be appointed to the non-executive board of the Cabinet Office and a healthcare trust, given what is coming out of this court case? I find that remarkable.

Then there is the role...

It is, but how could somebody be given a CBE when this scandal was out there? How could somebody be appointed to the non-executive board of the Cabinet Office and a healthcare trust, given what is coming out of this court case? I find that remarkable.

Then there is the role...

My right hon. Friend is making an excellent case. I want to raise with him this issue about MPs not being able to find out what happened. In the Hillsborough inquiry, the Bishop of Liverpool talked about

“The patronising disposition of unaccountable power”.

This is a classic case of exactly that.

I also...

My right hon. Friend is making an excellent case. I want to raise with him this issue about MPs not being able to find out what happened. In the Hillsborough inquiry, the Bishop of Liverpool talked about

“The patronising disposition of unaccountable power”.

This is a classic case of exactly that.

I also...

I thank my hon. Friend for that. She uses a great description.

We then come on to the issue of compensation.

I thank my hon. Friend for that. She uses a great description.

We then come on to the issue of compensation.

The right hon. Gentleman mentioned the issue of Ministers. Of course the Post Office has a non-executive director appointed by the Government. One must assume that that non-executive director is reporting to Ministers. Would that not be an interesting topic for the inquiry?

The right hon. Gentleman mentioned the issue of Ministers. Of course the Post Office has a non-executive director appointed by the Government. One must assume that that non-executive director is reporting to Ministers. Would that not be an interesting topic for the inquiry?

Yes, and I was going come on to that, because I would love to know who those non-executive directors have been over the years and what they said to Ministers. If I had been the Minister, I would have had that person in and scrutinised what was going on, as...

Yes, and I was going come on to that, because I would love to know who those non-executive directors have been over the years and what they said to Ministers. If I had been the Minister, I would have had that person in and scrutinised what was going on, as...

I will try to complete my contribution in even less than five or six minutes, Madam Deputy Speaker.

The right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) has given a comprehensive explanation of the background to this case, and many of us taking part in this debate will be familiar with...

I will try to complete my contribution in even less than five or six minutes, Madam Deputy Speaker.

The right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) has given a comprehensive explanation of the background to this case, and many of us taking part in this debate will be familiar with...