I thank my hon. Friend for securing the debate, because it is pertinent to the people who are represented here. I can see four MPs here—one from Coventry, two from Liverpool and me, the MP for Chorley—who have had or who still have in their constituency factories for Telent/Plessis/Marconi, whichever...

I thank my hon. Friend for securing the debate, because it is pertinent to the people who are represented here. I can see four MPs here—one from Coventry, two from Liverpool and me, the MP for Chorley—who have had or who still have in their constituency factories for Telent/Plessis/Marconi, whichever...

It is significant that my hon. Friends the Members for Chorley (Mr. Hoyle), for Knowsley, South (Mr. O'Hara) and for Coventry, South (Mr. Cunningham) are here, because we all have large numbers of Marconi pensioners among our constituents. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Chorley has some...

It is significant that my hon. Friends the Members for Chorley (Mr. Hoyle), for Knowsley, South (Mr. O'Hara) and for Coventry, South (Mr. Cunningham) are here, because we all have large numbers of Marconi pensioners among our constituents. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Chorley has some...

My hon. Friend has again raised a very pertinent point, and I will cover that issue towards the end of my speech. So strong are the concerns about the approach of Pension Corporation that a strong case is being put for an urgent review to clarify the regulatory framework for...

My hon. Friend has again raised a very pertinent point, and I will cover that issue towards the end of my speech. So strong are the concerns about the approach of Pension Corporation that a strong case is being put for an urgent review to clarify the regulatory framework for...

It is a great pleasure to respond to this important debate under your chairmanship, Mr. Marshall. My right hon. Friend the Member for Knowsley, North and Sefton, East (Mr. Howarth) and other colleagues have raised an important issue in relation to Telent/Marconi. To lose one's pension is to suffer an...

It is a great pleasure to respond to this important debate under your chairmanship, Mr. Marshall. My right hon. Friend the Member for Knowsley, North and Sefton, East (Mr. Howarth) and other colleagues have raised an important issue in relation to Telent/Marconi. To lose one's pension is to suffer an...

What a pleasure it is to have the opportunity to raise this important issue in the debate today. There are concerns about the so-called defined benefit market and pension buy-outs. The Marconi/Telent pension fund involves an unusual approach by a Guernsey-based company, Pension Corporation, to buy out the whole company...

What a pleasure it is to have the opportunity to raise this important issue in the debate today. There are concerns about the so-called defined benefit market and pension buy-outs. The Marconi/Telent pension fund involves an unusual approach by a Guernsey-based company, Pension Corporation, to buy out the whole company...

As my hon. Friend is quoting Mr. Truell, is he aware of another quotation from him? In Mr. Truell's own words, when Pension Corporation took over Threshers:"““We took a number of steps. We replaced the company's trustees with our own partners.””" Does that sound rather ominous to my hon. Friend?

As my hon. Friend is quoting Mr. Truell, is he aware of another quotation from him? In Mr. Truell's own words, when Pension Corporation took over Threshers:"““We took a number of steps. We replaced the company's trustees with our own partners.””" Does that sound rather ominous to my hon. Friend?

Before my hon. Friend moves on, it is worth noting that the value of the company is £200 million and the value of the pension fund is £3 billion. That shows the scale of the fund.

Before my hon. Friend moves on, it is worth noting that the value of the company is £200 million and the value of the pension fund is £3 billion. That shows the scale of the fund.

Typically, my hon. Friend makes a strong point, and it raises a question: why is Pension Corporation interested in Marconi/Telent? As I say, 93 per cent. of the buy-out is to be funded on a conventional insurance buy-out basis, which means that Pension Corporation cannot touch the funds for 12...

Typically, my hon. Friend makes a strong point, and it raises a question: why is Pension Corporation interested in Marconi/Telent? As I say, 93 per cent. of the buy-out is to be funded on a conventional insurance buy-out basis, which means that Pension Corporation cannot touch the funds for 12...

I know that my hon. and learned Friend will deal with all the issues, but may I say that we are talking about past pensioners, current employees and future employees? We must also look after future employees, although I do not know whether my hon. and learned Friend can discuss...

I know that my hon. and learned Friend will deal with all the issues, but may I say that we are talking about past pensioners, current employees and future employees? We must also look after future employees, although I do not know whether my hon. and learned Friend can discuss...

My hon. Friend is entirely right that we are talking about all three. However, we are talking about not just the pensioners at Telent, but how the financial services industry has decided to deal with pensions. What concerns me is that that seems to involve treating pensions as just another...

My hon. Friend is entirely right that we are talking about all three. However, we are talking about not just the pensioners at Telent, but how the financial services industry has decided to deal with pensions. What concerns me is that that seems to involve treating pensions as just another...

To put it simply, does the Minister agree that instead of treating a pension as a trust to protect and grow for the benefit of the pensioners, the financial markets see it as an instrument for making profit?

To put it simply, does the Minister agree that instead of treating a pension as a trust to protect and grow for the benefit of the pensioners, the financial markets see it as an instrument for making profit?

That is exactly the concern. Until now, companies have broadly regarded pensions as a trust or, in the case of an insurance product, something that is backed by capital, and there has been a relationship with an employer or insurance-based capital backing. Pension Corporation has some very reputable people on...

That is exactly the concern. Until now, companies have broadly regarded pensions as a trust or, in the case of an insurance product, something that is backed by capital, and there has been a relationship with an employer or insurance-based capital backing. Pension Corporation has some very reputable people on...

I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend for that assurance. I recognise that the relationship between him and the pensions regulator is complicated, but people will be assured that the concern that has been expressed today will be passed on to the regulator.

I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend for that assurance. I recognise that the relationship between him and the pensions regulator is complicated, but people will be assured that the concern that has been expressed today will be passed on to the regulator.

I will certainly ensure that that is done and that the regulator is also made aware of the concerns that the Government have about protecting the scheme's future. As I said, I welcome the support that has come from across the industry for the actions of the pensions regulator. When...

I will certainly ensure that that is done and that the regulator is also made aware of the concerns that the Government have about protecting the scheme's future. As I said, I welcome the support that has come from across the industry for the actions of the pensions regulator. When...

Westminster Hall adjournment debate on the Marconi pension fund.

Westminster Hall adjournment debate on the Marconi pension fund.

A legitimate vested interest.

A legitimate vested interest.

A legitimate vested interest. However, there is also a wider interest, because the pension schemes of members working in other companies and organisations could also be affected by the development of a new model. I want to ensure that the regulator has the right powers to protect people's pensions to...

A legitimate vested interest. However, there is also a wider interest, because the pension schemes of members working in other companies and organisations could also be affected by the development of a new model. I want to ensure that the regulator has the right powers to protect people's pensions to...

My hon. and learned Friend has made a point about the need for capital standing behind the scheme to mitigate risks such as longevity or anticipated longevity, but is not that the problem—the loophole that is not covered by regulatory arrangements in schemes such as Pension Corporation's?

My hon. and learned Friend has made a point about the need for capital standing behind the scheme to mitigate risks such as longevity or anticipated longevity, but is not that the problem—the loophole that is not covered by regulatory arrangements in schemes such as Pension Corporation's?

Of course, Pension Corporation will have its own view on that. As I have said, because there are some quite difficult legal and other issues, I do not want to comment too directly. I want to focus more on the model, and concerns could arise with the model of companies...

Of course, Pension Corporation will have its own view on that. As I have said, because there are some quite difficult legal and other issues, I do not want to comment too directly. I want to focus more on the model, and concerns could arise with the model of companies...

Again, I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend for that assurance. Will he confirm that trade unions will be included in the definition of ““experts””? He will readily acknowledge that they have a wealth of experience on, and knowledge of, the intricacies of pension funds.

Again, I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend for that assurance. Will he confirm that trade unions will be included in the definition of ““experts””? He will readily acknowledge that they have a wealth of experience on, and knowledge of, the intricacies of pension funds.