To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether he plans to advise UK citizens to hold some cash reserves in the context of international hacking reports.

To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether he plans to advise UK citizens to hold some cash reserves in the context of international hacking reports.

To ask His Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with the financial sector about the decline in acceptance of cash payments and the pending reduction in availability of card payments in favour of payment by smart devices.

To ask His Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with the financial sector about the decline in acceptance of cash payments and the pending reduction in availability of card payments in favour of payment by smart devices.

My Lords, the Government are committed to ensuring cash remains a viable method of payment. Initiatives with the financial sector include LINK, to ensure that cash machines are available, the Post Office for withdrawal and deposits, Cash Access UK for banking hubs, and others, and we await the Lloyd report. Regulation of these services is done by the FCA. Cash acceptance by businesses remains voluntary and levels of acceptance are kept under review.

My Lords, the Government are committed to ensuring cash remains a viable method of payment. Initiatives with the financial sector include LINK, to ensure that cash machines are available, the Post Office for withdrawal and deposits, Cash Access UK for banking hubs, and others, and we await the Lloyd report. Regulation of these services is done by the FCA. Cash acceptance by businesses remains voluntary and levels of acceptance are kept under review.

I thank my noble friend. I remind the House that, some time ago, I asked the then Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Vere, if she would come to dinner with me on the proviso that, if I could not access the payment system, she would be the one to pay. We never had the date. Will my noble friend bring pressure to bear on UK Finance to ensure that its terminal approval system mandates tactile covers for flat screen payment devices, so that people with little or no sight can maintain their privacy and have the equality that others take for granted?

I thank my noble friend. I remind the House that, some time ago, I asked the then Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Vere, if she would come to dinner with me on the proviso that, if I could not access the payment system, she would be the one to pay. We never had the date. Will my noble friend bring pressure to bear on UK Finance to ensure that its terminal approval system mandates tactile covers for flat screen payment devices, so that people with little or no sight can maintain their privacy and have the equality that others take for granted?

That is a really good question. There are some initiatives from UK Finance that we should commend; for example, its Accessible Cards Code of Practice, where the largest card issuers have committed to common standards for the design of future cards. UK Finance has also developed accessibility guidelines for touch screen chip and PIN devices, as well as an approved list of accessible card terminals and vendors. UK Finance and the British Retail Consortium are working together to identify opportunities to embed these features where customers need them most. However, there is still work to be done, and officials continue to raise the issue with UK Finance. I am more than happy to reinforce that message.

That is a really good question. There are some initiatives from UK Finance that we should commend; for example, its Accessible Cards Code of Practice, where the largest card issuers have committed to common standards for the design of future cards. UK Finance has also developed accessibility guidelines for touch screen chip and PIN devices, as well as an approved list of accessible card terminals and vendors. UK Finance and the British Retail Consortium are working together to identify opportunities to embed these features where customers need them most. However, there is still work to be done, and officials continue to raise the issue with UK Finance. I am more than happy to reinforce that message.

My Lords, as I am sure the Minister knows, some of the most vulnerable people rely on cash to budget and administer their daily life. As the Minister pointed out, acceptance of cash is voluntary. Will the Government legislate so

that essential services are forced to make sure they always accept cash, because some of the most vulnerable people can operate only with cash?

My Lords, as I am sure the Minister knows, some of the most vulnerable people rely on cash to budget and administer their daily life. As the Minister pointed out, acceptance of cash is voluntary. Will the Government legislate so

that essential services are forced to make sure they always accept cash, because some of the most vulnerable people can operate only with cash?

There is no current plan for legislation, but this is being monitored. The British Retail Consortium believes that all its members are accepting cash, and I think 99% of corner shops are accepting cash. The Bank of England did a survey where 40% of people accepted that, where they had not been able to use cash, they had found somewhere else where they could get the service they wanted. This remains under review, rather than there being any plan at this stage, but the issue raised is an important one.

There is no current plan for legislation, but this is being monitored. The British Retail Consortium believes that all its members are accepting cash, and I think 99% of corner shops are accepting cash. The Bank of England did a survey where 40% of people accepted that, where they had not been able to use cash, they had found somewhere else where they could get the service they wanted. This remains under review, rather than there being any plan at this stage, but the issue raised is an important one.

My Lords, this is getting more complicated. In a year or so, payments, including some salaries, will start being paid in stablecoin. What happens if you do not have an electronic wallet? Even if you have a smartphone, how can you use it to access cash from an ATM? Who is going to pay for interoperability, and will it fall on the consumer or the banks but not on the companies that will make increased profits out of stablecoin?

My Lords, this is getting more complicated. In a year or so, payments, including some salaries, will start being paid in stablecoin. What happens if you do not have an electronic wallet? Even if you have a smartphone, how can you use it to access cash from an ATM? Who is going to pay for interoperability, and will it fall on the consumer or the banks but not on the companies that will make increased profits out of stablecoin?

On people getting hold of cash, there are initiatives taking place. On future payment systems, the National Payments Vision is trying to put together what an entire system using different payments methodologies would look like. Some of this is work in progress, around where we are and where we are going.

On people getting hold of cash, there are initiatives taking place. On future payment systems, the National Payments Vision is trying to put together what an entire system using different payments methodologies would look like. Some of this is work in progress, around where we are and where we are going.

My Lords, has my noble friend looked at the experience of Sweden, where, a few years ago, there were a number of crashes and online payments were completely halted? The conclusion in Sweden was that it had to have a continuing element of cash payments. Are we looking at that?

My Lords, has my noble friend looked at the experience of Sweden, where, a few years ago, there were a number of crashes and online payments were completely halted? The conclusion in Sweden was that it had to have a continuing element of cash payments. Are we looking at that?

On this question of resilience, yes we are. For example, there is a project with Mastercard to support point-of-sale terminals from 2027 if the system failed, so that the system would still work. There is also a multi-year campaign on preparedness more generally—on the notion of what backups there are if, for example, our payment systems and ATMs failed. Again, that is work in progress, as is the Mastercard project, because it is not here yet.

On this question of resilience, yes we are. For example, there is a project with Mastercard to support point-of-sale terminals from 2027 if the system failed, so that the system would still work. There is also a multi-year campaign on preparedness more generally—on the notion of what backups there are if, for example, our payment systems and ATMs failed. Again, that is work in progress, as is the Mastercard project, because it is not here yet.

My Lords, the truth is that not everyone is sophisticated financially, and those who are not tend to use cash, especially the elderly. There is a lot of concern in the House, given the increasing drift away from cash—for example, in car parks. Will the Government take steps to ensure that those who use cash can play a full part in the life of our nation, and actually get on with this?

My Lords, the truth is that not everyone is sophisticated financially, and those who are not tend to use cash, especially the elderly. There is a lot of concern in the House, given the increasing drift away from cash—for example, in car parks. Will the Government take steps to ensure that those who use cash can play a full part in the life of our nation, and actually get on with this?

That is a good question. We are on top of the availability of cash through the banking system, but it is the case that acceptance of cash is voluntary, whether it is a car park, a retailer or the rest of it. That issue is under observation, rather than something on which there are direct plans. I point out that the other way that one can deal with this is to

make sure that people have a way to pay by card. For example, the reduction of people who do not have bank accounts—from about 1.2 million to 900,000 over the past four years—is positive progress, but the noble Baroness makes a good point.

That is a good question. We are on top of the availability of cash through the banking system, but it is the case that acceptance of cash is voluntary, whether it is a car park, a retailer or the rest of it. That issue is under observation, rather than something on which there are direct plans. I point out that the other way that one can deal with this is to

make sure that people have a way to pay by card. For example, the reduction of people who do not have bank accounts—from about 1.2 million to 900,000 over the past four years—is positive progress, but the noble Baroness makes a good point.

My Lords, the noble Lord mentioned a review. Is he consulting pensioner groups across the country on this? They are particularly affected by the lack of cash and by having to use these modern devices. Can he give a commitment that no government department or institution will ever make it compulsory to use them, and that there will always be the option of using a card or cash?

My Lords, the noble Lord mentioned a review. Is he consulting pensioner groups across the country on this? They are particularly affected by the lack of cash and by having to use these modern devices. Can he give a commitment that no government department or institution will ever make it compulsory to use them, and that there will always be the option of using a card or cash?

I have talked about some reviews. When I talked about voluntary acceptance, I meant voluntary acceptance. As I say, we have data from the British Retail Consortium, the local shop association and the Bank of England and so on about whether that acceptance is currently a problem. There is no consultation on anything that would make acceptance of cash mandatory right now. Although the pensioner groups will be involved in those areas that I have talked about where reviews are taking place, it is not the case that a review of retail acceptance is taking place right now.

I have talked about some reviews. When I talked about voluntary acceptance, I meant voluntary acceptance. As I say, we have data from the British Retail Consortium, the local shop association and the Bank of England and so on about whether that acceptance is currently a problem. There is no consultation on anything that would make acceptance of cash mandatory right now. Although the pensioner groups will be involved in those areas that I have talked about where reviews are taking place, it is not the case that a review of retail acceptance is taking place right now.

My Lords, although taking cash is obviously necessary for some groups, it is an increasingly expensive thing to do for a dwindling amount of cash. Will the Minister consider how one ensures that corner shops and high street shops do not bear the cost of this, while people who are online-only get away scot-free? The cost of providing cash must be borne across the retail and utility sector as a whole.

My Lords, although taking cash is obviously necessary for some groups, it is an increasingly expensive thing to do for a dwindling amount of cash. Will the Minister consider how one ensures that corner shops and high street shops do not bear the cost of this, while people who are online-only get away scot-free? The cost of providing cash must be borne across the retail and utility sector as a whole.

As I have explained, the choice is entirely voluntary for the people who accept cash right now. Some 99% of members of the local shop association are accepting cash right now. I realise that there are some fixed costs in accepting cash and that that makes it more and more costly. That is why, as I say, this is under observation by the Government, to make sure that we do not slip to a point where people are not able to buy the things that they need.

As I have explained, the choice is entirely voluntary for the people who accept cash right now. Some 99% of members of the local shop association are accepting cash right now. I realise that there are some fixed costs in accepting cash and that that makes it more and more costly. That is why, as I say, this is under observation by the Government, to make sure that we do not slip to a point where people are not able to buy the things that they need.

My Lords, I ask the House not to forget the purpose of this Question, which was to ensure that there is access to machinery for those who are either blind or partially sighted. We have moved on to other issues, which are of course important, but the whole point of the Question was to ensure that people with sight issues can access such equipment as is available. Please do not forget that.

My Lords, I ask the House not to forget the purpose of this Question, which was to ensure that there is access to machinery for those who are either blind or partially sighted. We have moved on to other issues, which are of course important, but the whole point of the Question was to ensure that people with sight issues can access such equipment as is available. Please do not forget that.

That is absolutely right. The Government recognise that individuals with visual impairments must be able to pay for products easily and safely. Considerable progress is being made on cards, but there is some progress still to be made on how chip and PIN services are used. I will reinforce that message from the House with UK Finance.

That is absolutely right. The Government recognise that individuals with visual impairments must be able to pay for products easily and safely. Considerable progress is being made on cards, but there is some progress still to be made on how chip and PIN services are used. I will reinforce that message from the House with UK Finance.

My Lords, I will make a few comments on amendments in this group and speak particularly to my Amendments 54 and 57. I say very gently that I agree with the other amendments in this group. My noble friend Lady Bowles is looking for consistency in the consultation period. Unless...

My Lords, I will make a few comments on amendments in this group and speak particularly to my Amendments 54 and 57. I say very gently that I agree with the other amendments in this group. My noble friend Lady Bowles is looking for consistency in the consultation period. Unless...