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Charities Bill [HL]

I am grateful for that response. We have an equal and opposite complexity at work here. The Minister rightly says that the Bill would be more complicated if we allowed this option, but my point is that it would make life much simpler on the ground. If it is a question of complexity on the ground or complexity in the Bill, I think we go for complexity in the Bill every time. That will mean that on the ground we will have trusts that can convert into CIOs and retain their single-tier structure. Although the Minister says that it is not difficult to explain to people that you have members of the governing body but they are the same, and so on, my experience is that the capacity of charities to be bored by their constitutions and ignore them is unbelievable. I could tell tales that would curdle your milk of national charities that do not have a governing body, for example, because no one has remembered that they have a rotation arrangement, and so on. I will shut up now and hope by talking to the Minister in the Corridor before we come back that I will convert him yet. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendment No. 54 not moved.]