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Debate on bill and Committee of the Whole House (HL) on Tuesday, 12 July 2005, in the House of Lords.

Charities Bill [HL]

Charities Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage second day. Clauses 22 to 62 agreed to. Clauses 20 and 21 agreed to as amended. Schedules 6 to 9 agreed to as amended. New clauses considered.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
673 c1032-92 
Session
2005-06
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1092 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 86:"Page 74, leave out lines 22 and 23 and insert—" ““(   )   ““charity”” has ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1091-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 85:"Page 153, line 24, at end insert—" Schedule (Group accounts): group accoun...
Show all contributions (107)
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1089-90 (Link to this contribution) I can see what the noble Lord is getting at. It is one of those things where we need a sense of bala...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1089 (Link to this contribution) Sorry to persist, but can this right be met by a charity having a website on which the accounts and ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I do not know the answer to that. However, I do not think the provision is unreasonable in the circu...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1089 (Link to this contribution) Is it a right that can be exercised exclusively at the expense of the charity of which the request i...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1091 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 84:"Page 150, line 43, at end insert—"
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1090-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 83:"Page 143, line 21, at end insert—" ““(   )   In subsection (4) after ““abo...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1090 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 82:"Page 138, line 33, at end insert—" ““(   )   In subsection (1A) for the wo...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1086-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 66:"Page 129, line 6, leave out sub-paragraph (2) and insert—" ““(   )   For s...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1086 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. It seems to me he is essentially saying he   thinks that guarantors w...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1085-6 (Link to this contribution) We debated this amendment last time round. I said at that time that we wanted to give further consid...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1084-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 64:"Page 47, line 29, at end insert ““; or" (d)   any contractual or other obl...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1084 (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1084 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for his explanation, and I understand that the purpose of the amendm...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1083 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 63:"Page 47, line 26, after ““date”” insert ““(but this provision shall be witho...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1082-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. I have considered the matter extremely carefully, but the amendment d...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1082 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, for the amendment and his Anglo-Saxon interpretation...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1081-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the question. Of course, if a particular trustee is got at under the provisions—or...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1089 (Link to this contribution) A Mears amendment, but no mere amendment. Have the Government any idea how much the existing entitle...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1089 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 80:"Page 138, leave out line 27 and insert—" ““(1)   Section 47 (public inspec...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1089 (Link to this contribution) No, but I suspect probably not frequently. Nevertheless, it is an important right.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1088 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 74 to 76:"Page 136, line 19, at end insert—" ““(3)   After subsection (7) ad...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1087-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 73:"Page 136, leave out line 10 and insert—" ““(1)   Section 42 (annual statem...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1089 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 78 and 79:"Page 138, leave out line 15 and insert—" ““(   )   falls within s...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1088 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 77:"Page 138, leave out lines 6 to 12 and insert—" ““““(3)   Except in accorda...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1087 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 67:"Page 129, line 25, leave out sub-paragraph (8)." On Question, amendment agr...
Lord Tordoff | 673 c1087 (Link to this contribution) If Amendment No. 73 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 73A, for reason of pre-emption.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1087 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 68 to 72:"Page 131, line 29, at end insert—" ““(   )   for ““a receiver”” su...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1073-4 (Link to this contribution) The purpose of new Section 69F, as inserted by paragraph 1 of Schedule 6, is to set out the legal co...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1072-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that response. We have an equal and opposite complexity at work here. The Minister...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1073 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 55:"Page 100, line 38, after ““applicants”” insert ““subject to its liabilities”...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1075 (Link to this contribution) The amendment would provide a deemed confirmation regime if the commission fails or refuses to confi...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1074 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said a lot then of a quite high degree of complexity. I am not sure that I followed his...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1074-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 56:"Page 106, line 31, at end insert ““or at the expiration of six months from r...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1075-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that. I accept that the drafting was defective and needs to be sma...
Baroness Crawley | 673 c1076 (Link to this contribution) This may be an appropriate moment to move that the Committee be adjourned until 8 pm. Moved accordi...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1076 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 57:"Page 108, line 25, leave out from ““After”” to second ““Schedule”” and inser...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1076 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 58:"Page 113, line 27, leave out ““gross income or total expenditure of the char...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1076-8 (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 59:"Page 37, line 31, after ““charity”” inse...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1078 (Link to this contribution) I can see that the noble Lord is in full flow, but I have heard enough. I am more than happy to say ...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1078 (Link to this contribution) That is indeed a handsome offer and I am extremely grateful to the Minister. I was on the point of t...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1078-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 61:"Page 46, line 20, at end insert—"    ““save that the requirement for a tra...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1079 (Link to this contribution) When we debated this on the previous occasion, I said that the noble Lord’s point relating to merger...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1079-80 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that uncompromising response. He brought up some heavy artillery w...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1080-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 62:"Page 46, line 32, at end insert—" ““(   )   Where the statement in subsect...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1081 (Link to this contribution) I have a question relating to the amendment. I understand the need to protect creditors, but the ame...
Lord Swinfen | 673 c1053-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 48:"After Clause 26, insert the following new clause—"    ““RIGHT OF REPLY TO ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1054-5 (Link to this contribution) We have had this debate on two or three occasions, and my response will not be terribly different fr...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1060 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for addressing the House in such a manner. I am not in a position to...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1057-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 50:"After Clause 28, insert the following new clause—"    ““GROUP ACCOUNTS (1)...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1058-60 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that comprehensive explanation of the matter that we   debated at some leng...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1056-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall approach the amendment on a slightly different tack this time. As the noble Lord, Lord Hodgs...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1057 (Link to this contribution) I have enjoyed being on the end of the Minister’s toasting fork. He has held my feet firmly to the f...
Lord Swinfen | 673 c1055 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Bassam, and I have often disagreed across the Chamber, and I suspect that that ...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1055-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 49:"Page 27, leave out lines 28 to 32 and insert—" ““(b)   the charity’s asset...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1060 (Link to this contribution) I apologise if the Minister is now responding to the debate on this group of amendments. I planned t...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1060 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord and I am sorry that I was not quick enough to see him rising before beginning...
Lord Best | 673 c1061-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 51A:"After Clause 32, insert the following new clause—"    ““TRUSTEES UNDER 18...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1065-71 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 52:"Before Schedule 6, insert the following new schedule—"    After Schedule 5...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1071 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 53:"Page 98, line 4, leave out ““shall”” and insert ““may””" The noble Lord sai...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1071-2 (Link to this contribution) I have listened to what the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, has said. I shall start by congratulating him...
Lord Swinfen | 673 c1062 (Link to this contribution) I see what the noble Lord, Lord Best, is trying to do, but I have the feeling that his amendment nee...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1062 (Link to this contribution) I rise to comment on this very interesting amendment, which might even be described as a funky amend...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1062-4 (Link to this contribution) This is a very interesting amendment and I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord   Best, on tabling it. ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1042 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 39:"Page 20, line 27, at end insert—" ““(   )   Unless to do so would prejudic...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1042 (Link to this contribution) Hear, hear. On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1042 (Link to this contribution) It may be helpful if I advise the noble Lord that I am happy to take the amendment away for consider...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1042 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 40:"Page 21, line 11, leave out ““so done”” and insert ““which has been done und...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1042 (Link to this contribution) That is a most timely interjection. As long as the Minister’s consideration is in a positive directi...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1043-4 (Link to this contribution) I have an amendment in this group—Amendment No. 42. However, before speaking to it, I must say that ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1042-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 41:"Page 26, line 28, after ““must”” insert ““before leaving the premises (unles...
Lord Swinfen | 673 c1044 (Link to this contribution) This is an eminently sensible amendment. It could be for the protection of members of the Charity Co...
Lord Swinfen | 673 c1048-50 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 45:"After Clause 26, insert the following new clause—"    ““NAME OF RECEIVER A...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1048 (Link to this contribution) We have trusted the Government thus far and have little cause for complaint. I beg leave to withdraw...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1046-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 44:"Page 27, line 19, at end insert—" ““(   )   In section 38 of the 1993 Act—...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1052-3 (Link to this contribution) As I have already said, cases where the commission appoints a receiver and manager are rare, and it ...
Lord Swinfen | 673 c1051-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 47:"After Clause 26, insert the following new clause—"    ““PUBLICATION OF DET...
Lord Swinfen | 673 c1051 (Link to this contribution) I am advised that the microphone that I was sitting near was not picking up what I was saying, but I...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1050-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Swinfen, for his explanation and the background to his amendme...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1046 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord and will look forward to what comes out of this. Very briefly, I thi...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1040 (Link to this contribution) I accepted the Minister’s strictures on Amendment No. 35, but I thought that those on Amendment No. ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1047-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for the lengthy nature of his introduction to the matter. I shall no...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1035 (Link to this contribution) I hope that we can bowl along with this.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1090 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 81:"Page 138, line 31, at end insert—" ““(3)   In subsection (2)(a) after ““ac...
Lord Best | 673 c1064 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the Minister for that reply. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amen...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1044-6 (Link to this contribution) I want to be helpful in this.   I thank the noble Lords, Lord Phillips and Lord Hodgson. I thank the...
Lord Swinfen | 673 c1053 (Link to this contribution) I have listened with interest to what the Minister said, and that has been helpful. What concerns me...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1041-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 38:"Page 20, line 27, leave out ““so done”” and insert ““which has been done und...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1041 (Link to this contribution) Subsection (1) of new Section 19A allows the commission to give a direction, once it is satisfied,"“...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1041 (Link to this contribution) The concern with the present drafting of the last part of subsection (2) of new Section 19A is with ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1039 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said a minute ago that the grounds for putting in a receiver or manager will be made ex...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1038-9 (Link to this contribution) In most circumstances, we would be talking about a matter of days. However, the commission has to co...
Lord Swinfen | 673 c1038 (Link to this contribution) The Minister used the term ““reasonable time-frame””. How long is that?
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1040-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 37:"Page 20, line 13, leave out from ““which”” to the end of line 14 and insert ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1039-40 (Link to this contribution) I am coming to that. The noble Lord went on to say that they will be told at the Beginning, or quick...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1039 (Link to this contribution) I also said that on the day of the appointment trustees will be advised and will be given reasons fo...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1036-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 36:"Before Clause 20, insert the following new clause—"    ““REASONS FOR APPOI...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 673 c1037 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord   Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, has, as usual, put the case succinctly and clearly...
Lord Swinfen | 673 c1037 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, referred to the issue of the cost to the charity. At the o...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1037-8 (Link to this contribution) I have listened very carefully to the comments of the three noble Lords who have supported the amend...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1035 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for the robust and full reply with which he has opened the batting tod...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1034-5 (Link to this contribution) Section 8 of the 1993 Act gives the Charity Commission the power to open an inquiry into a charity o...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1035-6 (Link to this contribution) Whichever way, the Australians are doing rather well at the moment, I fear. We accept that it has b...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 673 c1032-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 35:"Before Clause 20, insert the following new clause—"    ““POWER TO INSTITUT...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 673 c1032 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lady Scotland of Asthal, I beg to move that the House do now ...
Subjects
Charities Audit Assets Charity Commission Charitable donations Finance Inquiries Fundraising Public appointments Regulation Registration Charity Tribunal
Legislation
Charities Bill (HL) 2005-06
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk