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Liverpool City Council (Prohibition of Smoking in Places of Work) Bill [HL]

My Lords, I will endeavour to meet the challenge laid down by the Captain of the Gentlemen at Arms by being extremely brief. My first point concerns procedure. Many of us know that the original intention was that these Bills would be debated in March. It was not the fault of either London or Liverpool that they are now being debated in July. The reason flowed from the general election and the delays in legislation that necessarily followed from that. Secondly, I listened closely to the noble Lord, Lord   Naseby, and fundamentally disagree with him. That fundamental disagreement is precisely because I want to encourage local authority initiative and local authority pilot schemes. I want many more than we currently have. There is a great deal to be said for encouraging local authorities to experiment, especially in controversial areas, to see how it works out. It is the most effective form of consultation to try something in practice and then legislate when one knows the result of those experiments. So I do not for one moment criticise Liverpool or London for floating these Bills now, even though a government Bill is proposed later. Thirdly, it is appropriate that the future European City of Culture, Liverpool, with which I am proudly associated, having been at one time Member of Parliament for Crosby, should be pursuing its renaissance by trying to bring in a far-reaching public health measure. London is now, delightfully, about to become the city of the Olympics in 2012. Again, what could be more appropriate for the world’s sporting community than to see a city that has decided to get rid of smoking in public places? That is a very appropriate concomitant to a sporting occasion. Finally, I turn briefly to the content of the Bill. There is a sharp distinction between the White Paper and, as far we know, what the Government are currently proposing and the London and Liverpool Bills, which is two substantial exemptions. The first is private member’s clubs; the second is pubs that do not serve food. Many others will be more knowledgeable than I am about private members’ clubs; I have never been a great club member, so I will leave that discussion to other Members far better placed than I to contribute to it. However, I want to say something briefly about pubs that do not serve food, given that there is already an indication in the Government’s consultation papers that they might allow certain sorts of food in pubs otherwise excluded from smoking. I leave that on one side, although it is a slippery slope. It could quickly move towards certain kinds of food being served, and there is a much bigger consideration. We know that, as a country, we are faced with an extremely serious problem of binge-drinking among young people. Pubs that do not serve food are likely to be much more popular with the binge-drinking community than pubs that do. For one thing, the whole clientele is different; for another, the emphasis is on drinking—drinking fast and a great deal—and not on an evening out with a nice glass of wine with a supper or dinner. There are great dangers in subjecting that section of our community, almost all of them young people—teenagers and young 20s—to a smoke-filled room. They are the most vulnerable, the least able to realise the risks, and the most likely to suffer throughout the rest of their lives from running those risks. The argument for the exemption falls to the ground at that first stage. I wish the Liverpool and London authorities well. I am not in the least surprised that there is some opposition; there is bound to be on a controversial matter such as this. A pilot scheme in both cities is appropriate, and I hope very much that the House will give not only a Second Reading but a fair wind to the Bills as they go through. If at the same time they are a blow for the autonomy and independence of local government, that gives them a double argument in their favour.