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Parliament and the Public

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Puttnam on chairing the Hansard Society Commission which produced this report and on giving us the opportunity to have what has been a very interesting and thought-provoking debate. I said to my noble friend at the beginning of the debate that I was faced with a real test of my commitment to Parliament today because I gave up attendance at a lunch with Tina Turner to be here. I also extend my thanks for the report to all the commissioners, including, in this House, the noble Lord, Lord Tyler. I also congratulate my noble friend Lady Morris of Yardley on her excellent maiden speech. I am sure that the House, together with me, looks forward to hearing her future contributions. The report raises issues of great importance to Parliament. Many of the report’s recommendations are directed at another place and it is not for me or this House to comment on how another place conducts its affairs. However, the report and all speakers have shown that there are many ways in which this House can improve its relationship with the public, particularly on communication. At the outset, I pay tribute to the work of the Hansard Society and to the noble Lord, Lord Holme of Cheltenham. The Hansard Society has set out a wide range of issues and recommendations on how Parliament can conduct itself, which have been of great value over years. The report offers this House an opportunity that I hope we shall grasp. My noble friend Lord Sawyer used three words to describe our house: elitism, patronage and privilege. The report shows how the public sum up their view of Parliament by saying that Parliament lacks a contemporary personality, and that it is seen as boring, old-fashioned and formal, dating from a different age when people would stop and listen to those better and wiser. If that is the reality of how we are seen, there is much that we can do to bring about a change. This afternoon many speakers have touched on our responsibilities as parliamentarians to the people we serve, not in this House as their elected representatives but as members of the second Chamber, with a responsibility to scrutinise legislation, to amend it and, ultimately, to pass it. In that role we serve the public and the failure to communicate effectively is a failure to serve effectively. I believe we are all chastened by the declining rate of voter participation and the apparent disengagement of young people from politics. There can be no greater reprimand in a parliamentary democracy than that its activities are seen as opaque and meaningless by our citizens. I am heartened by the tone of the debate this afternoon and by the ideas that noble Lords have put forward for making this House more accessible. This is a matter for the House; it is not a matter for government. It is in that spirit that I answer the debate. I say to the noble Lords, Lord Norton of Louth and Lord McNally, that this House can take the lead. To do that we need to be serious about what we want to achieve. Many suggestions have been made this afternoon and towards the end of my speech I shall make a suggestion about how we should take them forward. I have given a great deal of thought to ways in which we can encourage greater youth engagement with Parliament. I agree with my noble friend Lord Puttnam that it can be done. We shall need to be creative, innovative and ambitious. We should be serious about changing our relationship to the outside world. I say the ““outside world”” advisedly, because sometimes it seems like ““us””, the world of the Westminster village, and ““them””, the rest of the world. I strongly agree with my noble friend Lady Morris about the vibrancy of our democracy and the general interest that continues to exist in politics. I do not have a constituency—I would not be here if I did—but I talk to a lot of people and there is a lot of interest in both domestic and global issues. People have very strong views and they have no problem communicating those views when one talks to them. They have views which they want us to hear. On that, I agree with my noble friend Lord Gould. I also agree with my noble friend Lord Puttnam and others that while there is disengagement from party-political processes and from our institutions, including Parliament, there has been a rise and an interest in specific issues which require political leadership and a political response. So it is not a one-sided issue and it is important that we remember and recognise that. Indeed, the introduction of Chapter 2 of the report makes that point. That institutional disenchantment is not, overall, political disenchantment or disengagement. We should remember that people engage with the work of this House on an issue about which they feel strongly or which they feel affects their day-to-day lives. Some 15,000 members of the public wrote to the Select Committee on Assisted Dying for the Terminally Ill. Fifteen thousand people connected what was happening here with an issue that mattered to them. And it also made the news in a way that gave authority and profile to the work of this House—something we are not always able to achieve. The comments I have heard today lead me to the conclusion that we in this House need a communications strategy, with the aim of promoting the work of the House, focusing on the valuable work that is done not only here in the Chamber but also in committees. The noble Lords, Lord Puttnam, Lord Currie and Lord Howarth, alluded to the importance of that. The great strength of this House lies in its ability to tackle big, complex issues and to do so thoroughly and impartially. But it also has a day-to-day task, described by the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, in terms of the scrutiny of legislation. The fact that we have the opportunity to think about some of the big, complex moral issues which face our society, and that we can consider them before any government are able to take them forward legislatively, gives us a real opportunity. I am sure that the outside world would see that as an important and valuable part of our work. Perhaps I may add a personal view—a plug, if you like. If this House were to go down the route of having a presiding officer, that would be an appropriate figure to give authority to a communications strategy representing the work of the House. It would not be the work of government or of a party or any individual Peer; it would be the work of the totality of contributions made by this House as a legislating Chamber. That communications strategy could include a comprehensive approach to promoting the work of your Lordships’ committees. And more committees might consider holding meetings outside Westminster and London, a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth. Indeed, our committees might consider ways in which they can take greater steps to listen to the views of the public on the issues they are investigating; for example, through online communication. My noble friend Lord Gould and the noble Baroness, Lady Bonham-Carter, stressed the importance of the coverage of activities in Parliament. There is no reason why we should not ask the Information Committee, for example, to look at the rules governing television coverage in this House. It was, after all, your Lordships’ House which led the way to broadcasting proceedings from Parliament when it decided in 1983 to let the cameras in. The other place followed in 1989. The broadcasting contract is due for renewal next year. It is an opportunity to reconsider whether the rules are too narrowly drawn. In that respect, I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord McNally. I hesitate to say any more about the wider role of the media, which was a theme picked up by several noble Lords. The reason that I hesitate is that although there are some real issues about the role of our media that we need to consider as a Parliament, as a Minister and a member of Cabinet, anything that I say from this Dispatch Box about the role of the media will be misinterpreted. So I will say no more, but I think that the whole issue of our relationship with the media and the interpretation of the political events in our country is something that one of the committees of the House may consider in more depth. Many noble Lords know that I would like an expansion of the education programme that would make the House accessible to young people and students, especially when the House is not sitting. I have been told that the House could give permission for the Chamber to be used for the finals of the national debating competition, for example. The noble Lord, Lord McNally, raised that point. That would be an innovative way of engaging a new generation with the work of the House. It would be going beyond the heritage tour and giving our young people a better understanding of what this House does. The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, had another idea about a debating chamber close to Parliament. Again, that idea is worthy of consideration. I can report to the House that progress has already been made in expanding the visitors programme for schools and colleges run by the Parliamentary Education Unit. Former teachers have been recruited to develop outreach programmes with local education authorities and schools. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, that there is no reason why more Members of this House should not go out as part of a wider outreach programme. Indeed, I think that that will be something that the Information Office would be happy to do if the resources were available. The House has endorsed the recommendation for a new visitor centre. Construction is due to begin on-site in January next year and it is planned to complete the work by the time of the return of both Houses in October 2006. Again, that will offer a great opportunity to extend the wider interest in Parliament and its activities. I was not surprised to read in the Puttnam report that even seasoned journalists admitted to having difficulties finding their way around parliamentary documents. I think that we have all had that problem at some time or other. How many of us were baffled by the language and procedures when we first arrived in this place? How many of us have, over time, got used to them and stopped realising how strange they may sound to the outside world? The challenge for us must be to continue to view the language and procedures with outsiders’ eyes—a point powerfully made by the noble Lord, Lord Greaves—and to seek to change them where it is needed. I emphasise, where it is needed—I am not advocating change for the sake of it. Our objective should be to make our language and procedures as transparent and as clear to the outside world as possible. I agree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe, and the noble Lord, Lord Jopling, that tradition and history can lend our proceedings dignity and, indeed, a quirky charm. However, I think that we could be more rigorous in thinking about what works and what does not. I agree with my noble friend Lady Morris about the importance of considering change as a way of facing the future. Many noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Puttnam and the noble Lords, Lord Currie, Lord Norton of Louth, Lord Tyler, Lord Greaves and Lord McNally, talked about the importance of using new technology. An improved website to engage people, especially young people, and draw them into our work is achievable. I understand that plans for that are already under way. There is no reason why our website should not be interactive, looking outwards not inwards and drawing in views as well as putting out information. Many organisations, including other parliaments, already take advantage of new technology to reach people in new and innovative ways. This House could learn much from practices elsewhere. I should like to pick up on four final points—I may have lost count as I have been dealing with each point as I go through my speech. The first is accountability and our overall effectiveness as an organisation. I agree with the noble Lords, Lord Norton of Louth, Lord Jopling and Lord Tyler, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe, and the noble Baroness, Lady Shephard, who talked about the importance of the substance of what we do and communicating that to the public. My noble friend Lord Sawyer also talked about the importance of what we communicate. In response to the noble Lord, Lord Jopling, who keeps me on my toes with Questions for Written Answer, I agree that the Government need to improve but I remind him that, since 17 May this year, 2,068 Questions for Written Answer have been tabled and the majority have been answered. Sometimes in talking about a lack of accountability of government, Members of this House and the other place forget that, despite lapses in responding to Questions for Written Answer within 14 days, for example, the number of times that Ministers from this Government come to the Dispatch Box, give Statements about what we do and open ourselves up to scrutiny and accountability should be recognised. I am in no way saying that Members of the Opposition or the Cross Benches do not have a right to hold us more rigorously to account and to ask us why we have not done certain things within certain time frames. But I feel very strongly that part of the malaise that grips us about the way our Parliament works stems from how almost everything is used in party-political terms rather than in looking more broadly at enhancing our political institutions. The noble Baroness, Lady Shephard, mentioned the importance of government being more accessible and communicating more effectively. I feel that the Government have a track record of seeking the views of the public on policy issues. We have consulted them on a wide range of policy issues relevant to individuals in society, including GM crops, disability, sustainable development and NHS services. The House may not realise that earlier this year the Home Office launched a cross-departmental initiative called Together We Can, which commits the Government to help citizens to work with public bodies to set and achieve common goals. As part of that initiative there are specific plans to increase democratic participation by raising understanding of political processes. The Department for Constitutional Affairs, in partnership with the Hansard Society and the Association for Citizenship Teaching, has just commissioned the development of a teaching resource dedicated to explaining Parliament and its work, to be used in schools. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, who reminded the House that it was this Government who introduced citizenship teaching. He did it by reference to David Blunkett, but it is a reference that I will pick up because it is important to value the role that my right honourable friend played in that. The noble Baroness, Lady Shephard, mentioned that the explosion in methods of communication made it much harder for us as a parliament to communicate. I agree with that. But, even in recognising that, we have a responsibility to look at whether we can use those new and different methods to enhance our relationship to the wider public. A point about accessibility and security was made by my noble friend Lord Puttnam and the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury. I think that we are all agreed that while we have to be conscious of security, particularly given our responsibilities to staff who work here, we need to find the right balance between security and accessibility. I have to say to the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, that I was a little surprised, because I felt her speech was slightly outside the spirit of our debate. I believe that Parliament and government have a common interest in strengthening post-legislative scrutiny. From the Government’s point of view, it could help to ensure that our aims are delivered in practice and that the considerable resources devoted to legislation are committed to good effect. We have therefore been giving very close consideration to how post-legislative scrutiny can best be achieved. We have asked the Law Commission to undertake a study of the options. I have to say to the noble Baroness, who mentioned a whole raft of Bills, some of which are not even yet operative, that in order to carry out post-legislative scrutiny effectively it would be sensible to wait to see what impact those Bills have. In conclusion, the report rightly points out that clear political leadership is essential if change is to be achieved. The House authorities can assist us in providing opportunities for our work to become more accessible and open to the general public. But they are not responsible for those decisions and they cannot be the sole drivers for change. I would like to propose that we refer all the proposals made today to the relevant committees for consideration. I would be very happy to look back over the debate, consider the suggestions that have been made and perhaps place one or two sides of A4 in the Library making it clear to which committee each suggestion or recommendation has been referred. I was a little surprised that, at the same time as participants in the debate were extolling the importance of the independence of Parliament and that it was seen as separate from government, from the Executive, it is government who are being pressed to bring about the changes proposed in the report. If Parliament is to communicate effectively and engage fully with the public that it serves, the leadership must come from its Members. That is a challenge for all of us, collectively. It will require time, energy, co-operation and good will. If it is to happen, let us be honest with ourselves. The views expressed today do not necessarily reflect the views across this House. I have seen sensible proposals for change go no further because of a fear of change. That is part of the challenge that we face collectively as Members of this House. We have to be honest about that. There is no point in participants in this debate expecting me to deliver those changes. I am one individual and, sometimes, one lone voice on many of the committees on which I sit. It is sometimes a little peculiar to find that, as a member of the Government and a member of the Cabinet, I am the one making suggestions about the way in which this House can fully exercise its independence. The responsibility rests with noble Lords. It is a challenge, but I am sure that it is one to which all can rise.