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NHS Redress Bill [HL]

I have listened to the Minister and I understand his point. To a certain extent, we on these Benches, have a degree of sympathy. But take, for example, the Bristol heart scandal case that went on for so long. It needed light to be cast on it by someone from outside, not least in order to work with the parents of children and to say, ““This is what we want to do for you. There is something bad going on here””. It is absolutely clear that from the point at which that happened, the trust went on to do that, but it did not manage it on its own. That is one particularly famous example. By the Minister’s acknowledgment, we are talking about a low-level of activity compared to that. Let us not forget that a very large percentage of NHS patients are older people. We are talking about cases in which, over a long period of time, a culture has grown in an organisation; for example, a culture that may have grown under one consultant who has a particularly strong ethos at the hospital where he works. While no one on this side of the Committee is trying to undermine in any way what the noble Lord said about the need to encourage a learning culture, sometimes lessons have to be pointed out before they can be learnt. We are trying to establish that with the help of people who have access to appropriate, independent medical legal advice.