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Identity Cards Bill

My Lords, I share in the comments made by my noble friend Lord Peyton in congratulating the Minister on the steadfast way in which she has conducted matters. However, like my noble friend, I regret that I have a number of questions which, so far, are unanswered. I am opposed to the whole concept of ID cards, since it is rather like Big Brother watching you. It is always good that a government keep track of their citizens, and every law-abiding person is happy to sign. I am worried about the crooks, the underground thieves and those people who do not pay tax, for how will identity cards help to bring them into the net? I am sure that every Member of this House will sign up to an identity card process, if the time comes. However, we on these Benches—and, it appears, other sections of the House—are extremely worried about what the costs might be. We all know that the Government seem to favour a firm of accountants to the London School of Economics. I hold no brief for either, except to say that the London School of Economics has a somewhat similar nature to the top end of chartered accountants, such as PricewaterhouseCoopers or Peat Marwick, now KPMG, and so on. I heard only today that 12 professors were involved in putting these estimates together. I would not necessarily hold out that the estimates—and they are only estimates—will be any different coming from one organisation or another. Can it possibly be fair, therefore, to be buying a product for a figure—in this case, for what we must call the nebulous figure of £584 million—if you are not going to be told what you will get from it, or how much it will really cost? Is it really morally correct that someone can sell you something for that amount of money if you are not entitled to the details? For example, if I were buying a business and were told that the cost was £584 million, I would say, ““Fine—can I have details? Can I look at the balance sheet and the profit and loss account?””. In this case, we are getting no such details. My noble friend Lady Noakes referred to competitive issues, as indeed did others including the noble Lord, Lord Barnett. The more competition that there is, the better to get a cheaper price rather than a secretive, organised one arranged separately by government. I do not know how many companies the Government are in touch with about this—although the Minister would—but I am very much of the opinion that the more are involved in competing for what would be an extremely large contract, the better. That would mean we will get it for a cheaper price. I am no great mathematician but I have worked out that, by taking £584 million forward for the 10-year period that we are talking about and allowing for 2 per cent inflation per annum, after five years it would become £644 million and after 10 years £711 million. We all agree that these figures are nebulous and uncertain, but they show that building-in even only a 2 per cent inflation figure escalates the cost dramatically. What will be the capital cost? We really do not know. We have heard mention of from £10 billion to £19 billion, and I believe the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, mentioned a figure today of possibly £24 billion. These are colossal figures. They would contribute towards the budgets for education and the health service to a remarkable degree. Let me go a little further and talk about what the identity card will cost if it is to be foisted on the public. Will it cost £30, £60, £90, £100, £200 or £300? Even a sum of £500 was mentioned in the press at the weekend. I do not think the public would go for that and the whole thing would be a disaster. The noble Lord, Lord Wright, mentioned that when you are introducing new technology, new equipment and so on, it always has tweaks and can fall down. I always believe that whatever costs are built-in, they will end up higher. We are all entitled to know the answers to these questions. I emphasise what my noble friend Lady Noakes said in her opening remarks: we need more information. What about the link between passports and ID cards? If the Government are going to lump the two together, will this result in a different figure and be quantified in a different way? The Government have said that ID cards are to help with security, but will they help to deal with people who are involved in shadow areas—for instance, those who do not pay their taxes, drug dealers, asylum seekers who are not on the register and so on? I think not. The costs of the scheme are so terribly uncertain that we on this side of the House cannot possibly approve it without much more information and much more definite figures.