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Identity Cards Bill

My Lords, I regard this legislation as the most important I have had to vote on in all my 25 years in the Palace of Westminster because, while I support the Bill, I recognise that it changes the relationship between the state and the individual—in my view, in a very positive way. That is why—this brings me to a criticism of what has happened—I lobbied very aggressively inside the Government prior to the Bill being announced, when David Blunkett was Home Secretary, to make sure that it was not dealt with by a Select Committee in the House of Commons but by a Joint Committee of both Houses. I believe that the arguments put forward by the noble Earl, Lord Erroll—who clearly has a very wide knowledge of these subjects—should have taken place inside that Joint Committee, drawing on the expertise of many other Members of this House who, within their particular areas on this Bill, have argued in detail. We should have had the opportunity in Joint Committee of pressing those details to conclusion. I believe that that would have avoided much of the debate which is now taking place in the House. Secondly, the whole debate has gone topsy-turvy. The reality is that, in the event that the noble Baroness, Lady Thatcher—who is in her place today—was still Prime Minister, a Conservative government would be introducing this Bill. Many of us treat this legislation as utterly inevitable. Therefore, behind the scenes there always was a consensus that we would move down this route. That brings me back once again to my view that we should have had in place a Joint Committee arrangement to allow the best minds in the land in this institution of Parliament to consider these matters. In my view, it is still not too late, despite the amendments that are being moved this evening. There is still room for an ad hoc arrangement to be established as the legislation slowly makes its way through departments in the period of implementation. I appeal to my noble friend please not to rely uniquely on the skills of civil servants to deal with these matters. We are simply discarding the huge expertise that is available and the ability of Parliament to ask questions on the minutiae, which might well, during the period of implementation, affect what final decisions are taken. Finally, I return to an issue that I raised on a previous occasion when we debated similar amendments to the Bill—the tax take. I believe that, as my noble friend would probably accept, a lot more work could have been done on the whole area of estimates. Clearly a lot more work could have been done on the area of benefits. There will be a vast increase in the tax take, as I keep saying. I just wish that those who pontificate on these matters on television and go on about costs would start referring to the increased benefit to the taxpayer arising from the Bill. We should not be fearful of the electorate in addressing the matter in what might appear to be a fairly aggressive way in relation to the tax debate. There is a gain to be made. I think that, in the event that we have a further opportunity to scrutinise these matters, that benefit should be clearly assessed—yes, with great difficulty, as we are measuring the black economy—and become part of the very important debate that will take place.