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Identity Cards Bill

moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 7, Amendment No. 8:"Line 6, after ““where”” insert ““, during the last 6 years,””" The noble Baroness said: My Lords, the noble Baroness opened by saying she hoped they were a listening Government and that their amendments have been tabled in response to debates in Committee. I hope that I may say without being opposed by any of my noble colleagues that we always think that the noble Baroness is a listening Minister. Our difficulty is that she does not run the Government. I hope that that does not kill her career stone dead today. We know full well that there are times when she listens but does not agree with us. There are times when she listens and agrees but is unable to carry the matter into legislation. That is one of the interesting facets of a political life. In most of these amendments, the noble Baroness has met the concerns we expressed. I welcome Amendment No. 7 in so far as it does that. My amendments in these groups today are probing in nature and are not intended to go further than that. On Amendment No. 8, the noble Baroness has taken us much further today than was possible in Committee or in another place. She has talked about some of the exceptions where the Government would need to consider a period before six years—exceptions that, so far as I am aware, have not been debated previously. I shall consider what she said because she has adduced very reasonable arguments. There could be people without any history in this country in the past six years. They may have been homeless or rootless during that time and are unable to produce that information. For whatever reasons, they may have historic evidence overseas. I accept that that is a good argument. There are other circumstances in which it is still intrusive as a matter of course to require that people should go back beyond six years. I do not intend to revamp the Committee stage argument: we pointed out how onerous it could be on individuals to go back 40 or 50 years. However, I recall the noble Baroness saying—I do not wish to put words into her mouth—that perhaps as a matter of good practice the Government might say that if you have lived somewhere for less than three months the place or the dates might not have to be revealed. That is in my mind. I can then move on to the way in which she has dealt with my other amendments. I am grateful to her for that. My amendment on students was badly drafted. I sought to put down words which fairly reflected some of the concerns put to me by universities. It does not cover all the issues raised but it was the only one I could find that was admissible. I was intrigued to hear the Minister say that students might wish to choose either their home or college address. I understand the sense in that; however, I suspect that they would not live more than three months at a time at their college address; therefore, the college address might be exempted. I shall need to consider that issue further and perhaps talk to the noble Baroness. Universities and colleges have been concerned about how students might be affected. I am aware that the government would be in great difficulty in exempting students per se because there are many different kinds of students. As a very mature student in my late 30s, I did a taught MA when I was living at home. Other students who had taken lodgings for that time kept their original address. Many of those students were sponsored civil servants. I know that the Government are in a difficult position but the statement in the Bill is very wide. I have been trying to get some assurance for outside bodies that at least their concerns are recognised. The noble Baroness has gone some way towards doing that today, and I shall have to think very carefully about what she said about Amendment No. 10. The noble Baroness has exactly met my queries with regard to Amendments Nos. 25 and 26, although perhaps for a reason different from mine. I am very happy with what she said. I thought that my amendment and that moved by the noble Baroness might also have a relevance to the position of UK citizens. During our debates in Committee, my noble friend Lord Northesk mentioned that he sometimes lives in the United States. Indeed, I know that the noble Baroness’s noble friend, the noble Lord, Lord Acton—he is not in his place so I will let him know afterwards that I referred to him by name—gives in Dod’s as his principal address an address in the USA, perfectly properly. So I accept that her amendment is right but perhaps for different reasons. Overall, I think that we need to consider a little further—perhaps by debate; it may not be necessary to do so by way of a later amendment—how far back one goes in tracking addresses and why. However, I accept the noble Baroness’s amendment today and I certainly shall not press my Amendment No.8, although as a matter of course I have to beg to move.