---

Government of Wales Bill (Programme) (No. 2)

I will not take up the House’s time at great length for the simple reason that the way in which the programme motion has been drafted means that every minute we spend discussing it takes time from the debate on the first two groups of amendments, where the Government have so thoughtfully inserted a guillotine after two hours. I presume, of course, that the insertion of that guillotine has nothing to do with any meeting that may take place outwith the Chamber, but we must ask ourselves why a programme motion is on the Order Paper today, when there have been no such guillotines throughout the consideration of the Bill. The junior Minister is right: I did object to the fact that 133 clauses have not been discussed. Therefore, on past record, it hardly seems worth while even to table amendments to the financial provisions, because we can be assured that there will be no opportunity to discuss them in the limited time available on Report and Third Reading. I do not want to rerun old battles, but it was correct that we asked for more time on the Floor of the House at business questions. I had believed that matters brought to the attention of the Leader of the House on the Floor of the House would be taken seriously. He did not even bother to respond; nor did he write to my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs. May) afterwards to explain why no time could be given to the Bill. In fact, I think that it was suggested at one stage that we could debate more of Bill in Committee upstairs to enable us to discuss it fully. After all, is not this the Bill that the Secretary of State for Wales has described as settling the business of devolution for a generation? Therefore, is it right that such a large part of it should remain undebated in the Chamber? The junior Minister’s assertion that 93 clauses are based loosely on the original Bill is correct, but that does not mean that they should not be revisited; otherwise why would the Secretary of State be placing the whole Bill once again before the House for scrutiny? I hope that that was not a vain attempt to slip the Bill past the House, with any laxity as far as hon. Members’ ability to scrutinise the Bill is concerned. The time given to the debate on Third Reading is derisory: one and a half hours on a main constitutional Bill. I can only presume that the Labour party once more assumes that very few Labour Members from Wales will participate in the debate and that not too many contributions are expected to the Third Reading debate. The Bill has been notable for the fact that very few Labour Members who sit for Welsh seats have taken an enormously active part in it, which is a great shame. Without further ado and not wanting to take any more of the House’s time, I am afraid to say that I have major objections to the programme motion, and I will ask my colleagues to vote against it.