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Government of Wales Bill

As I go on, I shall certainly quote examples that may be helpful to the hon. Gentleman. The fact is that the d’Hondt system and political balance are exactly the same thing in many cases. I shall quote the example of the size of Committees. Perhaps that will give him some reassurance, although I doubt whether he will agree. The aim is for political parties in the Assembly to reach agreement on the size and make-up of Committees. That is exactly what has been achieved over the past few months by the Assembly in moving to new, smaller Committees. It has moved from Committees of 10 to Committees of eight. Surely, the intention of all parties—I certainly understand this to be the intention of the present party in government in the Assembly—will be to reach such agreement in the future, but if agreement is not possible, a way forward must be found. We must recognise that the electoral arrangements discussed earlier today are likely to result in a very close balance between the political groups in the Assembly, as we have seen in the past two Assembly elections. There is nothing partial about the reality that the electoral system will produce very close results. All clause 29 will do is to ensure that, if deadlock were to occur, disagreement about Committee membership should not be allowed to create a stranglehold on the rest of the Bill’s provisions. There are important flexibilities in clause 29. In fact, the Assembly will have more flexibility over the number and purpose of Committees as a whole under the Bill than under the 1998 Act. First, clause 29 will enable parties to reach a consensus. The formula can be overridden by a two-thirds vote in the Assembly. I would expect consensus to be the norm, with agreement reached through the Assembly’s equivalent of our usual channels. The d’Hondt arrangements will provide a secure fall-back if agreement cannot be reached. Secondly, clause 29 will ensure that every Assembly Member—whether independent Members or those who belong to smaller parties—is entitled to a place on a Committee, subject to there being enough Committee places to make that possible. I refer the hon. Gentleman to clause 29(9)(a) and (b). Applying the d’Hondt formula to 10-Member Committees in the current Assembly gives exactly the same allocation of seats among the parties as was adopted by the Assembly when it was operating Committees of that size. I have here a table—I am more than happy to provide the hon. Gentleman with a copy and place one in the Library—that shows the current balance: the Labour party has 48.3 per cent., Plaid Cymru has 20 per cent., the Conservatives have 18.3 per cent., the Liberal Democrats have 10 per cent. and other parties have 3.3 per cent. Under the d’Hondt system and the present Assembly political balance, four members of a Committee of eight would come from the Labour party, two would come from Plaid Cymru, one from the Conservatives and one from the Liberal Democrats. So the Labour party would have 50 per cent. of the membership. Plaid Cymru would have 25 per cent., compared with its 20 per cent. representation on the Floor of the Assembly, so it would gain. The Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats would have 12.5 per cent., compared with their representation of 18.3 per cent. and 10 per cent. respectively on the Floor of the Assembly. I cannot see how one could come up with a different political balance. I have to say to the hon. Gentleman that the same is true of Committees of 10. One could not come up with a political balance by agreement that was better than d’Hondt. The idea that the d’Hondt formula is unfair and unreasonable is not borne out by the table, which I am more than happy to share with him. I accept that in the case of small Committees, such as a Committee of six, there may be a problem. I know that the Opposition have expressed concern about Committees of six, but, frankly, it is virtually impossible, whatever system one uses, to get political balance on such a Committee. If I were a business manager, I would seek an agreement that the Assembly would never have Committees as small as six.