---

Government of Wales Bill

The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, does not distinguish between the issues in the Bill. My noble friend referred to ““deepening, not broadening””. The process by which, as I understand it, the Assembly would gain a new field—that of energy—is available by amending Schedule 7, or whatever it is. It is a separate process. It is nothing to do with Part 3 in respect of expanding legislative competence under the existing fields. The noble Lord’s example of energy does not apply. As I understand the process—and this is why pre-legislative scrutiny comes into play—when an Assembly Government wish to propose a draft Order in Council, behind and alongside it will be a very specific proposal to legislate. In the Assembly Government’s mind there will be, not a detailed draft Assembly measure, but the outline of the proposals, almost like the heads that parliamentary draftsmen have, showing the kinds of things that they would like to do. The Order in Council would then transfer that legislative competence to them. I hope that my noble friend will tell us that that is the case. The question of how specific or unspecific Orders in Council are is extremely important to the wider argument that is being used about whether Part 3 is a backdoor way of transferring primary legislative power. It is important for us to clarify that. The noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, invited me to comment on Amendment No. 64B. It is an unbelievably cumbersome process—six months and 60 days for every Order in Council—for an Assembly Government to have to go through these lengthy procedures in order to legislate. No, I do not support that. Mine is a simpler view. We should decide that if we pass an Order in Council that that would give the Assembly the power to go ahead and introduce a measure, and not try to bring it back or restrict it subsequently, unless of course during the debates on the provision the border is crossed beyond the terms and limits of the Order in Council.