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Government of Wales Bill

I am grateful to all Members of the Committee who have spoken in the debate. As and when the referendum occurs, we will expect the Conservative Party to be very much to the fore in campaigning for a yes vote, led no doubt by the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell. However, I must take the position behind the amendments at face value, and I want to express to the Committee why we have in the legislation a different formula for the basis of the referendum. Let me make it absolutely clear that referendums are not light-hearted issues. A referendum result is a decisive occasion in the body politic. The 4:1 defeat in 1979 set back the whole devolution project for more than 20 years. It is true that there were other factors; the arrival of the Conservatives—in their pre-pro-devolution days—in government was not helpful. Nevertheless, there were considerable anxieties in Wales that the extent of the defeat in 1979 meant that those who argued for devolution faced a difficult situation. We are talking about a situation different from 1979 as well. The defeat at that stage merely stopped the proposal dead in its tracks, but now we have a working National Assembly. Even under the proposals of the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, 51 per cent of the National Assembly would have voted in favour of a referendum and so would have committed themselves to it. Then they get beaten in the referendum; the referendum is lost. What kind of confidence would such a defeat place in the National Assembly for its continuing work under the existing arrangements? That is why the approach to the referendum should be on the basis of clearly identified support.