---

Government of Wales Bill

moved Amendment No. 80:"Page 57, line 16, at end insert—" ““(   )   The draft of any statutory instrument containing an Order in Council under subsection (1) laid before each House of Parliament shall be amendable by either House during its consideration and approval.”” The noble Lord said: The order referred to in the amendments in this group would cause a referendum to be held throughout Wales on whether the Assembly Act provisions should come into force. It is likely that the order would contain the question or questions to be answered in the referendum, ““unprecedented”” as that might be, according to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. I am sure we are all familiar with the fact that it would be very unusual for the question in a referendum to be in secondary rather than primary legislation. If a referendum took place as the result of an order, presumably it would be after the Electoral Commission had examined the fairness of the question, as it is required to do in legislation. It would seem to me very odd in the circumstances if the two Houses of Parliament were unable to amend what the commission could change. But the strongest justification for ensuring that the order is amendable, which is what the amendment proposes, is that the timing of the order is so uncertain. It may indeed be a decade or more from now before such an order is required. It would certainly seem right to ensure that Parliament had maximum flexibility to act in those totally unforeseeable circumstances. Of course, a referendum Bill may be necessary to allow full parliamentary discussion but, on the other hand, instruments known as super-affirmative orders allow for amendments and modification. I have to tell the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, that Amendments Nos. 81 and 82, into which he read so much, are probing amendments. The matters referred to in these amendments have been discussed in the other place and I think that we should discuss them now. Amendment No. 81 is based on the view that it is unwise to legislate too far ahead and it sets a 10-year limit from the passing of the Bill on the application of subsection (1). That seems to me to be reasonable. Amendment No. 82 sets a four-year interval between one referendum and the next in order to avoid an immediate build-up of pressure following a referendum. I know that the Government have views on these matters and I am very anxious to hear them. I beg to move.