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Fraud Bill [Lords]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. I hope that my point is not as poor as he thinks and that the Minister will respond to it here or in Committee. My final concern relates to the decision to retain the offence of conspiracy to defraud. I understand some of the Government’s reasons for doing so, but clause 7, on the making or supplying of articles for use in frauds, would cover that, by and large. We have talked about people walking around with crowbars. Of course, it is debateable whether someone is taking a crowbar to lever open a door or to lever off a manhole cover and go about his business if he is a plumber. However, if someone is caught walking around with a cash machine keypad recording device, it is very difficult to argue that that person did not know what it was for; they are specific machinery manufactured only to defraud. I hope that clause 7 will cover a large amount of what is still viewed as conspiracy to defraud, but the Government have a slightly different view.