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Health Bill

My Lords, I am not as impatient as my noble friend Lord Faulkner to know what a Conservative Government would do with this legislation. I am happy to wait a very long time, and to be kept in the dark on that issue. The noble Earl’s long list of requirements on pubs was interesting, because it demonstrated the considerable social obligations that pubs must adhere to. The signage on no smoking is another. Under this Bill, no-smoking signage will be important for three reasons. First, it will inform the public and employees that they are in a smoke-free area, which will continue to be important, especially—as we said—for people visiting England from abroad. Secondly, it will assist occupiers, and those concerned in the management of the premises, by enabling them to point to evidence of a smoke-free requirement. This is likely to be particularly valuable should a dispute arise with someone on their premises. It cannot be beyond the bounds of possibility that disputes will arise between customers on these issues. Thirdly, it will be an indication to enforcement officers that premises are smoke free, and that any smoker in them ought reasonably to have known that. Signage is therefore likely to be important in any enforcement case against an individual who smokes in a smoke-free place. For all these reasons, no-smoking signage will be important into the future. The noble Baroness, Lady Barker, made an important point. We cannot be certain that the penny will have totally dropped with everybody, or that there will not need to be this kind of signage in pubs and clubs for a longer period than three years. Responding to the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, earlier, I tried to reassure the House over our concern to support businesses in the lead-up to implementation, and to make signs that meet regulatory requirements readily available, free of charge. I said then, and repeat, that we intend to provide these signs, for example, with guidance to businesses on implementing the legislation, put downloadable copies on our website and keep stocks to send out to businesses that request them. We want to be as helpful as possible, and minimise the burdens on businesses in this area. These signs must be available well into the future. The growing knowledge of a general smoke-free requirement among the public over time will not do away with the need for signs. The defences within the Bill, in particular the defence that a person did not know and could not reasonably have been expected to know, that he was in a smoke-free place, could come into play if signage was not displayed. That will continue to be a requirement. Much has been made about enforcement. That is an important part of the enforcement mechanisms. I do not believe that we can accept a sunset clause of this kind, as moved by the noble Earl. He is a persuasive speaker but I hope that I have been equally persuasive in explaining why the Government feel that a sunset clause on this provision would be inappropriate.