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Government of Wales Bill

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response. I hear what the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, says. My noble friend Lord Thomas has dealt with that. The Minister made a number of interesting points. First, he will know from previous amendments, which are not tabled today, that we are not great believers in referendums, which would affect some of the arguments that he has just deployed. The most powerful argument against his position is that the referendum date of 2011 is arbitrary. The situation is very interesting. He referred to a referendum in 1997. One does not have to be a brilliant mathematician to realise that he is saying that 14 years after the last referendum is not the time at which to have another one to decide whether the powers of the Welsh Assembly should be increased. That is a long time between one referendum and another and public opinion in Wales has changed. In the most recent opinion polls, a majority of Welsh people wanted primary powers for the Welsh Assembly. They have been asked that question more than once in well organised opinion polls. There are two sides to this argument. Traditionally, Governments have had the power to decide when they wish a referendum to be held; this amendment would merely straighten out that situation and say that it would be reasonable to hold it in 2011 and that we should prepare for it now so that we have four years lead-in time. Those are very reasonable arguments. However, having listened to what both sides of the House have said about the amendment and, as a realist, having considered the chances of getting it through, I withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 104 [Proposal for referendum by Assembly]: