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Companies Bill [HL]

My Lords, this amendment provides one of the rare occasions in a Bill of this complexity—and, indeed, a quite rare occasion in this House—when how we would vote, were the House to be divided, would depend much on the quality both of the response from the Minister and of the speech by the noble Lord moving the amendment. That is because, as both the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, have indicated, this was debated strongly both in Committee and at Third Reading. The noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, made an extremely powerful speech. I would have agreed with almost every word, had it been a speech on the regulations that the Government have announced they were about to implement. The real concern when we debated this, particularly at Third Reading, was that granting the Government this power would choke off the considerable activity by organisations to come up with proposals dealing with this issue voluntarily. The first undertaking stated at some length by the Minister, with which I am sure the House agrees, is that it is primarily desirable to have a voluntary system here, if we can. If he was not going so far as to make this an undertaking, then I invite him to do so when he has the opportunity. However, I understood him to say that the Government will not exercise the power that they are taking under this section if they, and the City, are satisfied that an appropriate voluntary system has been put in place, and that the Government do not regard the existence of this power as providing any disincentive that would choke off the plans that many institutions already have in place to have a voluntary system. If he can firm up that undertaking, it will go a long way in persuading us to support the Government’s taking this power. The second point is extremely important, although the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, did not touch on it. I understood the Minister to say that were he regretfully to have to exercise this power and bring in regulations, those regulations would not be implemented without extensive consultation with those who would be affected. If I may say so, that would be the appropriate place for many of the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, to be reflected in the consultation. First, can the Minister confirm that this power will not be used unless, in extremis, the Government take the view that a voluntary system has not worked; and, secondly, can he repeat the undertaking that, were he to have to exercise the power, adequate consultation would take place to ensure that the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, were taken into account in framing the regulations? If he can give those assurances, I am sure that he will be supported by these Benches.