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Charities Bill [HL]

My Lords, I will to be as helpful as I can on the points raised. Essentially both noble Lords were asking about the distinction between the provisions of new Section 10A(1)(a) and 10A(1)(b). The provisions are considered to have a similar effect to the existing provision in Section 10 of the 1993 Act. That is how we approach this issue. They give the commission the power to disclose information to another relevant body, whether the main purpose in doing so is to assist that body to discharge its functions under new Section 10A(1)(a) or where it is relevant to the other public authority’s function under new Section 10A(1)(b). The second part will enable the commission to disclose information to other public bodies in circumstances where it can assist the commission to discharge its functions. An example might be when the commission passes information to the police about bogus fundraisers: it may be less concerned with the prevention or detection of crime—the function of the police—than with protecting charity property through the hope that a prosecution will put the people concerned out of business. Another example where new Section 10A (1)(b) might apply would be where the commission passes information passes to HM Revenue and Customs about failings of a charity’s employee tax administration that it had discovered in the course of an investigation. Of course, the commission may be less concerned with the collection of tax than with the hope that the impact of a Revenue and Customs intervention will promote better charity governance in future. Amendment No. 130 does not make a lot of radical changes to the exchange of information provisions that have been in place for many years—in particular, as I said, in Section 10 of the Charities Act 1993. Those provisions emerged in the 1980s following abuses of charity tax reliefs for personal gain which, at that stage, were identified by the Inland Revenue. It found that, where abuses were taking place, the organisations or individuals involved would give different explanations and accounts of their actions to the Revenue than to the Charity Commission. There is no surprise there. The introduction of the information-sharing powers enabled a joined-up response to ensure that any abuses of tax relief for personal gain were effectively addressed. I entirely understand where the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, is coming from. I appreciate his point about data creep, because that is what it amounts to. That is a theme that he and other noble Lords have referred to many times. The amendments will strengthen and modernise the information-sharing regime. They will enable it to work better and have a more rigorous framework around it, so that the principal regulators can properly fulfil their duties under the Act. It is common knowledge to us all that the Data Protection Act 1998 protections are there. As I said, they include the Charity Commission and the principal regulators of exempt charities. The safeguards contained in that legislation are there to provide protection to the public relating to the handling, storage and disclosure of personal information. The noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, was also concerned about how staff might handle the issue internally. I fully recognise that; he made an important point. It will be for us to ensure that Charity Commission staff are well trained, understand the import of Data Protection Act protections and are trained in handling these sensitive data. That will be important. We have underlined the seriousness of offences that can be committed by ensuring that we are very clear about the import of those issues. That is why we have specifically created offences relating to the unlawful onward disclosure of Revenue and Customs information. As I explained earlier, that is consistent with the offence of unlawful disclosure in Section 19 of the Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Act 2005, which applies to Revenue and Customs staff. That is my explanation of what we seek to achieve. I think that I have covered the main points about which noble Lords were concerned. If I have not, I am more than happy to write with further, better particulars—