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Fraud (Trials without a Jury) Bill

My Lords, as someone who was a magistrate but who has long since retired, I have law and order still listed as one of my interests. However, it is not a subject on which I normally speak in your Lordships’ House, especially as there are so many eminent lawyers here. Listening today to so many of them, I wonder why I changed my mind. The last time I spoke in a law and order debate was when I made my maiden speech in 1994 in the debate on the Queen’s Speech. Like many members of the public, I have been concerned at the huge costs, which sometimes run into millions of pounds. The defence, lacking the resources of the prosecution, is often at a disadvantage. I am concerned about the gridlock caused when a specialist judge, a courtroom and prosecuting lawyers are tied up for many months; about cases in which members of the jury are drowned in paper or, nowadays, have to study masses of figures and documents on a computer screen, although I note the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, that sometimes this makes it easier for the jury; and about cases in which even a jury consisting entirely of chartered accountants—this is obviously an imaginary jury—might find themselves bewildered by all the facts in front of them. However, the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General asked how many of your Lordships would like to be tied up for nine months, a year or even longer. I found that a bit odd because he went on to say that the length of the trial was not the concern. I agree that most of us would not want that, although we sit here day after day, week after week and month after month quite happily, but we do not have to because we can sit outside if we wish. The problem is that the public often are rightly incensed when all that effort, time and money is wasted, and the case collapses. I am not talking about too many defendants being acquitted, as is sometimes claimed. That is what juries are for; namely, to put the onus entirely on the prosecution and to give the defendant the benefit of any doubt. The Bill is supposed to deal with complex fraud cases; can the Minister tell us why so many of them have to be complex? That that bothers me. I am not talking about cases where the fraud is a result of convoluted manoeuvrings of the defendant. Often, the most blatant frauds are as a result of some relatively simple actions. Why is it so often the case that a large number of similar charges, based on similar actions and evidence, are levelled against the defendant? The noble Lord, Lord Maclennan,said that it was not necessary in the Shipman case to bring in all the other cases that had taken place. There can be dozens of such charges and, sometimes, there are many more. Why? Unlike in the United States of America where sentences are usually consecutive,the sentencing practice here is for concurrent sentences. I apologise for repeating myself from my maiden speech—I am not 100 per cent sure that I will say exactly the same today, 13 years later. I said that I hope that our judges will limit the use of concurrent sentences because I believe where there are three convictions there ought to be three sentences. Our courts should not be a kind of discount store: commit two crimes and get one free. I notice the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, shaking his head, although I did say that I am not sure if I will still say the same today. My point is about concurrent sentences. To hear one case is one thing, but to have to listen to 40 cases to get to the same position is something else. There is a story, which is perhaps apocryphal, about a president of the Court of Appeal who, when faced with counsel’s opening remark, ““There are X number of grounds for appeal””, would reply, ““Well, Mr So and So, just tell us your best point””. Without trying to create an atmosphere of prejudice in the minds of a jury by the sheer weight of allegations against a defendant, it cannot be beyond the wit of the prosecution to secure a conviction on the basis of perhaps one, two or even three sample charges. The magistrates’ courts had a system of taking into consideration similar offences that had not been tried before the court, but would allow the court to realise the sort of person it was dealing with and the things that he had done. This avoids the prosecution taking a second bite at the cherry if it is dissatisfied with the sentence that has been imposed. It also clears the book of numerous other related offences. In the end, the consequential disgrace of the conviction will always be the same, especially to a so-called white-collar criminal. As I said, concurrent sentences result in the same amount of time in prison no matter how many charges are levelled against the same defendant. The Crown Prosecution Service and the Serious Fraud Office could be persuaded to restrain their exuberance in the interests of securing justice for the prosecution and the defendant and in the public interest. They should simply bring before the court in the words of the Court of Appeal judge ““their best case only””. That would help to solve some of the problems that, according to the Government, this Bill seeks to redress. I know that the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General is trying to do his best, but we wonder whether getting rid of the jury is the solution. Juries, which have been so aptly described by my noble friend Lord Hunt, are a pillar of our legal system. In all conscience, to get rid of the jury to alleviate the problem of complexity is a step too far. I do not believe that we on this side or the Government should be thinking of allowing this to happen. I very much hope that the Attorney-General will think long and hard about this. I know that he has. I do not know how much consultation has taken place, but I have heard from around the House today that there has not been enough. The Attorney-General is nodding his head; we are all doing that today. I assume that he does not agree with what has been said. However, he will agree that all people today, whether they are speaking for or against the Bill, are doing so with conscience, conviction and with real belief. Therefore, it is imperative that, before we get rid of systems that have been in place for some700 years, as my noble friend said, we take to heart and think carefully about what it would mean.