---

Further Education and Training Bill [Lords]

I rise briefly to speak in support of the amendment moved by the right hon. Member for Islwyn (Mr. Touhig). He has spoken eloquently to it, and I seek the leave of the House for a moment or two to explain why I support it. I do so with some trepidation, or apprehension, because I should not like it to be thought either that I was expert in the constitution of Wales or that I was in any sense seeking to subvert the devolution settlement or to make difficulties for the Welsh Assembly Government—I speak not for that purpose. The nature of the Bill’s consideration has been broadly constructive and consensual, but it is necessary to put down a constitutional marker on the clause. If I have interests in relation to the Principality, they are certainly in education. As I mentioned in Committee, I am about to become involved with the Higher Education Corporation in Wales, and one of the reasons for doing so is that many members of my wife’s family, who emanate from the Principality, have been, as one would expect, teachers, one of whom had the great privilege of teaching the new Under-Secretary of State for Wales, whom I warmly welcome to his position—he has certainly lost nothing of her loquacity judging by his performance this afternoon. To come to the substance of the matter, we in this place should be very careful about enabling legislation, which has a very bad history—modestly in relation to the United Kingdom and certainly in respect of other legislatures. The purpose of Parliament is to scrutinise legislation and to ensure that it is properly considered, and it is not helpful to those for whom it is written and who are intended to benefit to let all this go on the nod, particularly when it relates to constitutional matters and, indeed, education matters. Two areas are particularly sensitive: first, the general interests of the United Kingdom Parliament in relation to education. For example, there is a broadly common qualifications framework, and such issues cannot be discussed in Wales in complete isolation from those in England or the rest of the United Kingdom. Secondly, there will be cross-border issues, which have been discussed in other contexts but have not been brought out in this discussion. It is quite wrong just to transfer the powers, without a proper discussion, to a body that, as the right hon. Gentleman said, has not yet even expressed its firm intentions about how to handle them. I have little doubt that when we do make the transfer—I am sure that we will, through acquiescence—the powers will be well and responsibly handled. That is not the issue. The issue is whether we should have taken a little longer to look at the powers in more detail before signing them off to somebody else, before proper process. That is a weakness in our constitutional arrangements and I strongly agree that we should not allow that process to be repeated.