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Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill

My Lords, these are early days for the present system. It was a novelty. I have to tell your Lordships that not only being old Labour but of the old school and the old method whereby local government was administered, I took a rather jaundiced view of the changes that came about a few years ago. But that is all it was. It is far too soon to begin to tinker or interfere with something that may or may not be seen as a workable model in time. What faces the council and the people who elect it is the opportunity of being governed by a much more focused group of people. When I was the leader of a council in the London Borough of Enfield many years ago, of course there were a lot of young Turks, old lags and people with ambition, but some just wanted to serve on the council. They did not wish, nor were they able to take a higher position than that. That is all very well, and my noble friend Lord Smith has put his finger on a part of it. We could always find people to fill places if the number was more than 10. That is not a magical figure but it is the one that we have at the moment. It provides opportunity for those who have ambition, ability and capability to aspire to be one of those cabinet portfolio holders. As such there is a bit of excitement. I have been to one or two meetings where there is opposition and disagreement internally within a group about the persons, but I dislike the idea that if you cannot satisfy a proposition by, for instance, 10, you should extend the number so that you subsume into the enlarged number all of those who are either able or ambitious. That does not denigrate for a moment what is behind the amendment. It is a reasonable amendment if one never believed in the system in the first place. But if we believe in the system and want to be fair, we have to allow a reasonable time to operate. The present system elevates the stature and eminence of the people who are portfolio holders. They are very proud; I shall not say they are arrogant, but they know that they are one of the chosen few, chosen by a variety of methods. They do a job and get paid for it. They have responsibility and they have to be accountable. There is no benefit in the amendment and I hope that it will not be pressed.