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Defence Policy

The right hon. Member for Walsall, South (Mr. George) said earlier that people should not get up and speak unless they have something to say—a piece of advice to one of our young colleagues across the way. In many cases that advice is sound, but then again, everyone has to start somewhere. I have been here for six years and I have entered into three defence debates. I have been involved with the Select Committee on Defence for the last two years. Two of my colleagues are here; it is unfortunate that the Defence Committee is away again. These debates seem to take place when it is away, which is an unfortunate bit of timing. However, the reason for my involvement in defence, and for thinking that it is an important issue for us to consider, is personal experience. I was at Capitol Hill in 2001 when the plane hit the Pentagon next door, and my colleagues and I had to run out of the Capitol building. I quickly realised that as an MP, I was not here just to represent my constituency, but that the decisions that I, and others, took in this place would result in people going to war and not coming back again. If I had to make such decisions, therefore, the least I could do was to try to understand exactly what the conflicts to which we send people were about. That is why I joined the armed forces parliamentary scheme, which I recommend to anyone who has not been involved with the armed forces before. The hon. Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier) referred to deployment, and how the linkage between the armed forces and the public is now void, which is true. When I left school in 1965, I could go either to the pit, into the textile industry or to the local Army recruitment office—the Glencorse barracks is in my area. There is a link between the armed forces and my local community. There are marches in the area every year, but such links are few and far between, and do not exist in very many places. A disconnect has taken place over the years, and it is important that we understand that. Many previous speakers have talked about Iraq and Afghanistan, and I anticipated that that would be the position. I want to raise some specific issues about which I feel quite strongly, and refer to things that we need to develop. Like a substantial number of Members in my party, I opposed going into Iraq, and I continue to think that I was on the side of the righteous in doing so. At the end of the day, however, I have never spoken publicly against the decision to go into Iraq because it was a democratic decision taken in this House, and I was in the minority. I am from that old group that believes that when defeated, people should accept the decision taken. When the troops moved out, it was important that we were seen to support them in that conflict. That does not mean I have not had reservations about what happened, and what is happening. I want to make one or two points on Iraq. The first, which has been discussed during the past week, was about the commitment made to the Iraqi interpreters, who have been a major support. They have done a great deal of work not just in their interpretation duties, but in saving a great many British lives. I was glad to see the Prime Minister acknowledge that contribution by saying that we would have to support those people and ensure that they get sanctuary in this country. However, the fact is that there were 740 rulings last year on Iraqis who had supported the UK, but asylum was granted to only 30 of them. I hope that when we talk about the new dynamic, we will see interpreters being treated in a different way. Other hon. Members have spoken about the contribution from other countries, or lack of it, in sending people to the conflict; I suggest that those countries could make a contribution by looking after those who have been so supportive of our armed forces. We should also support them for another good reason: if we enter into any conflicts in future, the way in which we have treated those who supported us in the current conflict will be remembered. I was on BBC Scotland on Sunday, supporting the Government’s position, and I listened to an Iraqi interpreter who is in Syria. He made quite clear his disappointment with what has happened in the past, and he welcomed the Prime Minister’s statement because he may now be able to leave Syria and come to the UK. That applies not just to people like him, of course, but in many cases, to their families too. I appreciate the fact that troop numbers in Iraq, which stood at 7,200 individuals at the beginning of 2007, had gone down to 5,500 at the start of September. That number has decreased to 4,000, and by next spring it may have gone down to 2,500. It is disingenuous of many Opposition Members not to recognise that that is a major reduction. For anyone who has been supportive of our troops in Iraq, it is a good move, and I welcome what the Prime Minister has done. Like most Defence Committee members, I have been to Afghanistan. I was there last year, between 2 and 7 July, and we went not only to Afghanistan but to Pakistan. I would like to pick up on an earlier comment about the contribution of the Pakistani army. Some 800 troops of that army have been killed. Sometimes people criticise the Pakistani armed forces, when they are on the front line in many cases, and are losing troops hand over fist. They resent the criticisms, which are often made by people who should know better. When we met General Musharraf in Pakistan, he went to great lengths to explain how it is trying to support the UK and American forces and the United Nations in Afghanistan. We went to Camp Bastion and met a number of people down there. We were mortar-bombed one night, and someone had to wake me up—I am a deep sleeper. That was first-hand experience. Several hon. Members have mentioned talking to members of the armed forces and finding out from them how things are. I am a reformed smoker, which means that you can go out of the way, into back doorways, to have a cigarette, and that is where you really meet the troops. They tell you what they really think of you when they are away from their officers—smokers tend to get into direct contact with them. In all my experience of the armed forces parliamentary scheme and the Defence Committee, equipment is not an issue that has been raised with me. It is important to say that. Wages, and the conditions in married quarters, have been brought up, but conditions and equipment in conflicts have not been mentioned to me.