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Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Bill

My Lords, I am not entirely sure that I can give my noble friend much satisfaction. I feel that I have strayed slightly into a debate on a different area of policy. The basic issues are complex. Both noble Lords who have spoken are expert and are used to debating with each other on these matters. What I have to say in response may sound rather basic. Perhaps I may answer the noble Baroness’s question. Section 20(5) of the Police and Justice Act gives the Secretary of State power to make regulations as to the co-opting of additional members to serve on the crime and disorder committee of a local authority. I was interested in the way that the noble Baroness analysed the history of this. I accept that the intention was to hold the partnership to account—she is right—and I have no doubt that the main focus of those powers was intended to be the co-opting of members of police authorities. Subsection (6) goes on to provide that those regulations, "““may provide for a person co-opted to serve as a member of a crime and disorder committee to have the same entitlement to vote as any other member””." My noble friend Lord Bassam can rarely have been quoted so widely and with such enthusiasm, and I am sorry he is not on the Bench alongside me to enjoy it. He said that the Secretary of State continues to offer assurances that we still believe it appropriate to include the police authority in the overview and scrutiny committee functions, and the regulation-making power in Clause 18—now Section 19—allows for that flexibility. That statement, I say again, is still accurate. The problem with the noble Baroness’s amendment is that, in the light of that statement, it is inappropriate that we should suddenly decide to deal with the matter in primary legislation. We have already decided to deal with it by regulation and—to deal with the noble Baroness’s concerns—in regulations. I take the points my noble friend raised about what regulations might contain, how judgments will be made and the impact that will have generally. I have already referred in passing to the fact that Sir Ronnie Flanagan’s review of the police service continues. One of the reasons we were not intervening in the Bill in this way is that we are waiting for that review, which is due around the end of this year. We have to consider it carefully, and we will bring to the House any of its recommendations that appear to require new legislation. A key focus will be the accountability of the police service and Sir Ronnie may well have something to say in that context about the role of police authorities, the role of crime and disorder committees and the relationship between the two. I cannot address those questions in the degree of detail I am sure my noble friend would like me to.