---

Public Accounts

I thank the Exchequer Secretary for her kind words to the Committee. I thank all those who have taken part in the debate, especially the right hon. Member for Swansea, West (Mr. Williams), the Father of the House, who is a stalwart member of the Committee. I also thank him for laying to rest the canard that we are somehow trying to compromise the editorial independence of the BBC. There is no question of our trying to do that. I thank the spokesman for the Liberal party for her speech, and especially for reminding us of the accountability gap, which I have not heard expressed so clearly before. I also thank the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell), who brings a lot of life to our Committee. He made a fair point about civil servants. Certainly, in my brief inglorious career as a Minister I never encountered a compliant civil servant. It was more a question of ““No, Minister”” than ““Yes, Minister””. There is a serious point, however. We saw with the Rural Payments Agency saga that while the permanent secretary, Sir Brian Bender, had a close and continuing relationship with the Secretary of State, the project director did not. It is a question of officers and men, I think. Many project directors have a tenuous link with Ministers, and that is something that we need to address. I am grateful for the assiduity of my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk (Mr. Bacon), and especially his comments about the need for a single project director. We have gone back to the point again and again in these debates, but it needs underlining. For instance, for the Bowman project—a huge Ministry of Defence project—there was no senior responsible owner. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Mr. Dunne), who is a new member of the Committee, which reminds me to take up one more important point about where our systems often fail. As we saw with the NHS IT project, we often publish our report only for the Department to say that it has dealt with the problem. That is because we have shot ourselves in the foot, because our report has been so long delayed after the initial NAO report. I am trying to put pressure on the otherwise excellent NAO to try to speed up the process. It is because it is so careful that the process can take so long, but I want to see clearance speeded up. I say to Ministers and civil servants who read the report of this debate that there are often long delays between the NAO team finishing its investigation and its being allowed to publish its report. I want to see the process brought right up to the PAC hearing, so that we get up-to-date information. After the hearing, the NAO should write the draft report much more quickly, so that we can publish it. The whole process should be completed within three months, if possible, so that on the day that the PAC publishes its report we do not get the response from Ministers, as we frequently do, ““Well, it's a very interesting report, but we've dealt with all those points.”” I am grateful to my hon. Friend for highlighting that point. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr. Hammond), the shadow Chief Secretary, for his highly intelligent and thoughtful contribution. He reminded us that we are now committed to sharing the proceeds of growth. As a loyal member of the Conservative party, I accept that mantra, which has been put forward by our Front Benchers. It is not for me, as the Chairman of the PAC, to get involved in that debate now, but I am entitled to make the point that just a 2 per cent. efficiency saving every year would deliver £8 billion either for tax cuts or for more spending on essential public services. Our work is, therefore, right at the centre of the debate. Question put and agreed to. Resolved,"That this House takes note of the 9th, the 11th, the 13th to the 40th and the 43rd to the 45th Reports, and of the First Special Report from the Committee of Public Accounts, Session 2006-07, and of the Treasury Minutes thereon (Cm 7076, 7077,7151, 7152, 7216)."