---

House of Lords Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am delighted to follow the noble Lord, Lord Richard, because I had feared that I might be the first person to indicate disapprobation of the Bill and I am delighted that he did so. The noble Lord, Lord Steel, and my noble and learned friend Lord Howe, referred to the cross-party group. That was set up in order to see whether there was a broad measure of support in the event of the Government producing legislation that was unpopular. It was never set up in order to promote legislation. The Government did not introduce a Bill and I was therefore surprised when this Bill was produced. Like the noble Lord, Lord Richard, I do not think that this is a suitable subject for a Private Member's Bill. If there were to be a Bill for reforming your Lordships' House, it ought to be a government Bill. I am apprehensive about the proposed Appointments Commission. Its nine members will determine the future size and content of your Lordships' House forever. They are then to be hide-bound by regulations and criteria about the diversity of the population, the percentage of party members and so forth, all intended to provide some mathematically perfect result. It will not, and we should avoid the temptation of trying to prearrange these things. At least under the present system we know that the Prime Minister is responsible for new Peers. In future, it will be some sort of headless amoeba. I do not like Clause 15. The whole principle of the British judicial system is that if you are sent to prison, you serve your sentence and then you are returned to society a free man. Murderers and rapists are always being let out. Under this system, anyone who has been sent to prison for a year will be removed from your Lordships' House. That seems to me like being punished twice and I do not think it is right. Apart from anything else, your Lordships are always concerned about prisons and prisoners, and it is quite useful to have one or two people who have been at the ““coal face””. Nor do I like Clause 10, which is a modest little insert, your Lordships may think, of some eight lines. The Government gave an undertaking that the hereditary Peers would not be removed until stage two of the reform was put into place. Stage two has not been put into place. Those in favour of the Bill will say that this is not the wholesale abolition of hereditary Peers. Of course it is not; it is merely quiet, gentle strangulation, getting rid of them one by one until they no longer exist. Of course, I declare an interest as an hereditary Peer. It is a pretty modest thing to be nowadays. It is about the lowest form of political life there is, but I think—and always have thought—that the complete removal of hereditary Peers from your Lordships' House will have long-term and regrettable consequences. The life Peers have all been appointed by someone for some purpose. The whole essence of hereditary Peers is that they are here by chance. They are not here because they have friends in high places. They are not here because they have given or lent funds. They have not had to struggle to come to the attention of the powers that be. It is a way of getting young people into the House. I happened to come in when I was 25—just the other day. Your Lordships may think that that in itself is reason enough to get rid of hereditary Peers but the result is a mixture of talents. And, as has so often been said, it is presumably no worse to be appointed by the Almighty than by Mr Blair, or now by a headless commission. I am not suggesting that hereditary Peers are the best thing since sliced bread, but they make a valuable addition to the House. My concern is that when they go—if they go—the pressure for the House to be wholly elected will be unstoppable and the pressure to change the name of the House will be unstoppable too. This country, and the way in which it works, is founded on a long historical constitution. As the noble Lord, Lord Lea of Crondall, said, it goes back 1,000 years. But like a cat with a ball of string, we try to unravel it at our peril because we do not know where the ball will roll, in which direction or for how long. The noble Lord, Lord Steel, is no novice in this political jungle. He knows perfectly well that if this Bill goes to another place, it will be amended left, right and centre and nobody knows what on earth will turn up at the end. It is thoroughly dangerous and I hope that it will not get very far.