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House of Lords Bill [HL]

My Lords, it has often been said that everything that can be said has been said, but not by everybody. I realise that I come at the end of the day, and we are all looking forward to the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Lloyd-Webber—principally, of course, because his is the last speech before the wind-ups, as well as other merits. I have been in the House now for more than 20 years, and in the other place for 10. My remarks are firmly based upon touch and feel. I first congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Steel, who I have known as a friend for more than 20 years. His supporters think that they are doing a good service. I shall say why I believe that that is not the case. When I was the Opposition Chief Whip, there was a change in 1997. I pick up on the words of the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, who pointedly asked why, if this change is now needed, it was not attempted during the 18 years when the party opposite could have pushed through any legislation they liked. In 1997, the Whip was taken by 485 Conservative Members and 116 Labour Members. When the compromise was reached two years later, based upon the hereditary representation, there were 425 Conservative hereditaries and 18 Labour. So the Conservatives got 42 hereditaries and Labour got two. That was a situation that Members opposite—I am speaking directly to that Bench—were happy to sustain and support, and in my view many of those who support this Bill do so from the stance that they are not in favour of any elected element in this House. All my life, and for more than 60 years as a member of the Labour Party, I was in favour of the abolition of the House of Lords—the House of Lords as I knew it and as it behaved. Of course, there has been change and I note, in particular, that many of my noble colleagues who were members of the Labour Party before they came here take a diametrically opposed view. However, I am old Labour and very set in my ways, and I have not changed my view that, if the House of Lords is to be part of the 21st century, it has to be radically altered. I am quite relaxed about whether the Bill makes progress but what will be its impact if it does? The diametric parliamentary situation is that the other House is in support of either a wholly elected or 80 per cent elected House and this House is not. That is not an unusual situation, but why take the time to go through the process when we know, as the noble Lord, Lord Baker, said, that it will not be resolved this year or next? If the Bill is agreed to here, it will face a hostile reaction in the other place. Never mind the Government’s reaction—we will hear that from the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, in a moment—but down there a majority of the people who are interested in voting will be opposed to it. So we have a recipe for delay and procrastination and, so far as I am concerned, I do not want anything to do with it. The noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, and others have traded on the fact that when the Bill was debated last time, 46 out of 49 speakers were in favour of it. I look forward to the day when they are prepared to admit that in this debate the arithmetic has radically altered. I sense that, unless the present machinery can produce something that we can get our teeth into next year, this will be an exercise in futility, and I am against it.