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House of Lords Bill [HL]

My Lords, of course that is not what I favour. I favour trying to build up a consensus in the long term, not just on the future of this House, but on the relationship between this House and another place. One test for the Bill would have been to introduce it in another place, to get their view before we debated it. Of course there are oddities in our present arrangements in our House. There is nothing unusual in that. I dare say that the Bill would create new anomalies. For instance, I have huge respect for the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, whose integrity illumines the House, but the walls did not fall in when the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, came in here. People do not write off what we say because the noble Lord, Lord Cobbold, my noble friend Lord Eccles or the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, are here under Section 2 of the House Of Lords Act 1999. Many outside this place will not see it as much less eccentric for nine unaccountable people meeting in secret to decide all Members of this House, as the Bill proposes. After all, how many people decided on the appointment of the noble Lord, Lord Steel, and the reasons for him coming here? I know that we have Members who attend less often than others, but as my noble friend Lord Lloyd-Webber just said, many have unique insights that are invaluable to the House when they come. We should not be shy of defending their attendance records. As for the expulsion clause, Clause 12, those who would have been expelled under it in recent years include the noble Lords, Lord Hattersley, Lord Brown of Madingley, Lord Attenborough, and Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, Lord Deedes and Lord Alexander of Weedon, and no less than the former most reverend Primate Archbishop of York, now the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Habgood, and Lord Callaghan of Cardiff. I know that many of them were prevented from attending by reason of other duties, some by illness and some by old age. Is it seriously suggested that a former prime minister, such as Lord Callaghan of Cardiff, who was revered in this House, should be told that he must stand before some committee to plead the right ever again to come to this House? Who would be the accuser at that hearing? Perhaps it would be the noble Lord, Lord Steel of Aikwood. Many noble Lords have concerns about the Bill. Having heard the divided voices today I ask: what good is all this doing?