---

House of Lords Bill [HL]

My Lords, it is true, and it has already been said today, that there is very little understanding in another place of what goes on in this House. That is something I deeply regret, as I expect do Members on all sides in both Houses. As for what my noble friend Lord Baker said, I heard many noble Lords speaking against the Bill, including my noble friend Lord Campbell of Alloway. I shall come to the shadow Cabinet in a moment, and indeed to the other Front Benches. We heard from the noble Lords, Lord Tyler and Lord Addington, what the view of the Liberal Democrats was, so I can tell my noble friend Lord Baker that the Bill does not carry the support of the shadow Cabinet. Most crucially—the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, will no doubt clarify this for us—the Bill does not carry the support of the Government either. Moreover, it is not necessary to promote the image of the House. Indeed, when blow after blow is raining down on the image of government and politics, the name of this House stands high. The whole nation is looking to our debates on defence, human embryology and climate change. I therefore agree with my noble friend Lord Norton of Louth, my noble and learned friend Lord Howe of Aberavon and others that the present House has much to be proud of. However, this Bill does not flow out of the heart of a House brimming with confidence; it is a defensive Bill that wishes the real world away and offers this House only more uncertainty. Yes, there is talk of further reform—there has been talk of further reform for a very long time indeed—but at present there is no Bill before Parliament except this one. No Bill was promised in the gracious Speech. Yet we have this Bill flying like a whippet out of the traps. I have heard both Mr Brown and Mr Cameron say that this is a matter for a future Parliament, so what is all this haste about? What is the problem with this current House that we need to deal with so urgently? In 1998-99, the House wrestled with the painful issue of change. We did it together: hereditary Peers, life Peers and right reverend Prelates alike. And we did it, as we will always have to, in concert with the other place and with the political parties. I hope that is the way in which the Government will continue to go. They can bring in representatives of this House and consider the technical and other issues that would arise in any stage two based on appointment. That could be measured and put to the test of parliamentary and public opinion against proposals based on the view of another place, which it has already shown in a vote and which we cannot ignore, that this House should be wholly or largely elected. The Bill is not the answer, and by appearing to ignore another place, it may call down on this House fire from the other place that is now silent and stilled. Today’s debate has been worthwhile. Feelings have been vented, and wise words have been exchanged on both sides. I would leave it there, but if the Bill continues its passage through this House, my colleagues and I shall certainly wish to be involved in the many details of the Bill that remain to be clarified.