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House of Lords Bill [HL]

My Lords, since at the end of the last debate I was so critical of the Minister, let me say right away that I am extremely grateful for the constructive way in which he has commented on the Bill. In the time left to me, I do not think that he would expect me to respond to all the points that he made—but let me pick up just two. The Minister suggested that guidelines for appointment to the House should be subject to affirmative rather than negative resolution. As an offer that comes from the government Front Bench, I shall grab it immediately, and I think that it would be welcomed by the House as a change. On the Minister’s reference to the section of the Bill dealing with those who might be put out of the House but have good reason not to be, it was not intended in the Bill—although other Members have made reference to this, too—that people should come before a committee to plead their case. That was not the intention at all. It was intended that those who have a genuine occupation elsewhere, as a Law Lord or whatever, will automatically be excluded from the provision of the Bill that would otherwise make them leave the House. I am happy to give that reassurance; if we need to alter the Bill to make it clear in that regard, let us do that. I have been in correspondence with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope and Craighead, on behalf of the Law Lords, and given him that assurance as well. Secondly, I do not at all resent the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, teasing me—I have teased him often enough on this subject. He asked me how many people had been involved in my appointment to this place, and the answer is one: Mr John Major. However, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, because I always have to reassure my Whips’ Office that I am not here as a working Peer. I describe myself as a ““dissolute honour””. All of us have different contributions to make to this place, and I pick up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Lloyd-Webber, as a very valuable one. The number of speeches that noble Lords make here, which is what the press like to talk about, is not a proper measure of the contribution that Members of this House make to our work here. I think we can all agree on that. I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in a very constructive and good-humoured debate. In particular, I reassure those who made constructive suggestions of amendments to the Bill that we shall be open to those amendments in Committee, as we have already demonstrated by the fact that so many changes have been made to the Bill in response to the July debate. The noble Lord, Lord Lucas, gave the noble Lord, Lord Norton of Louth, and me rather a back-handed compliment when he said that the Bill was no more badly put together than the average government Bill. That may or may not be so—but we will look favourably on constructive amendments in Committee. On the observations of some of the hereditary Peers who were worried about the undertaking given back in 1999—and we have just had another exchange on this subject—it is noticeable that they latch on to one part of what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Irvine of Lairg, said. I refer to the volume of Hansard of 11 May 1999, where the noble and learned Lord said: "““I make it absolutely plain that stage two reform will take place, and when it does the hereditary Peers who remain … will cease to be Members of this House””.—[Official Report, 11/5/99; col. 1092.]" That is, perhaps, a less palatable part of the undertaking. My Bill does nothing to remove the hereditary Peers.