---

Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [HL]

I served on the Joint Committee with the noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, and the noble Lord, Lord Winston, and others. I am a lay man, not a scientist and did almost no science at all at school, but I had to balance the arguments. We had evidence from some of the most distinguished scientists in the country; on Amendment No. 8 I shall refer to one or two of them. We had evidence also from a number of people who share the views of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and who expressed themselves extremely firmly and eloquently. I am sure that my colleagues on the Joint Committee listened to them with great care. However, I think that, having listened to the scientists, particularly on the Benches opposite, the Committee will have some sympathy with why I broadly came to the conclusion—a conclusion reached by the Joint Committee—that the Government are right and that this research really does have to continue. We are talking entirely about research at this stage; we are not talking about in vitro fertilisation and that sort of thing, which we shall come to later. My wife and I discuss these things and I described to her our experience of hearing the group who are opposed to interspecies, and indeed other, work. She said exactly what the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries of Pentregarth, said: we have been given brains with which to advance human knowledge and improve the condition of the human race. That is what this is really about and I find myself very much persuaded by that argument. I discounted some of the arguments that we heard from the group at our forum as being almost beyond credibility, but some very powerful arguments were advanced as to why this should not be allowed, and they strike a chord with a large number of our people, as I think they will with many noble Lords. As I said, ultimately a balance has to be struck, and one has to ask whether the benefit is likely to be worth what one sees as the possible risks. I heard all the evidence—I think that I was almost the only member of the Joint Committee to be present for pretty well the whole time—and I came to the conclusion that the benefits were there. I shall not begin to repeat some of the arguments that we heard as time would not allow and the Committee would not forgive me, but they came from some very distinguished scientists representing the Royal Society, the Medical Research Council, the Wellcome Trust, the Academy of Medical Sciences and so on. These people have spent their lives in this work and I trust them. Therefore, I think that we are right to back them, and I hope that the Committee will not support the amendments put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Alton.