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Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bill on Monday, 3 December 2007, in the House of Lords.

Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [HL]

Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage first day. Part 1 of 2 records.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
696 c1495-563 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department of Health
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Patel | 696 c1495-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1: 1: Clause 1, page 2, line 5, leave out from second ““eggs”” to ““but”” in l...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 696 c1495 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Moved acc...
Show all contributions (93)
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 696 c1530-1 (Link to this contribution) I served on the Joint Committee with the noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, and the noble Lord, Lord Wi...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 696 c1528-30 (Link to this contribution) In his extremely comprehensive and detailed speech, my noble friend Lord Patel has covered virtually...
Baroness O'Cathain | 696 c1527-8 (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Alton, in Amendment No. 6. As he said, the creation of interspecies e...
Lord Winston | 696 c1527 (Link to this contribution) I add to what the noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, said, because it is a relevant point which has not...
Lord Harries of Pentregarth | 696 c1533 (Link to this contribution) For the sake of clarity perhaps I may respond to the noble Earl from the standpoint of the HFEA. At ...
Lord Elton | 696 c1532-3 (Link to this contribution) I should like to comment on the misfortune of the grouping which means that with this amendment we a...
Lord Patel | 696 c1532 (Link to this contribution) It may surprise the noble Earl to hear that I have some sympathy with his amendment. I do not think ...
Earl Howe | 696 c1531-2 (Link to this contribution) I should like to speak to Amendment No. 61, which I tabled very much as a follow-up to a point I rai...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 696 c1533-5 (Link to this contribution) There are several avenues of research that scientists are exploring or wish to explore in the hope o...
Baroness Neuberger | 696 c1533 (Link to this contribution) In principle, I support the amendment of the noble Earl, Lord Howe. This takes us back to other piec...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1535 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister tell us when an application for a licence to use a hamster test was last lodged wit...
Lord Winston | 696 c1537 (Link to this contribution) I wish to clarify one point, which I hope will be helpful. In the hamster test, raised by the noble ...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 696 c1535-7 (Link to this contribution) Although I agree that, in recent times, the use of intercytoplasmic sperm injection has reduced the ...
Lord Patel | 696 c1538 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is quite right but, just to be accurate, I think that he meant to say ““adult cells”...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1537-8 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to all Members of your Lordships' House who have participated in this debate. The...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1538-9 (Link to this contribution) There is no difference between my noble friend and me on that point. Where there would be a differen...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1539-41 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 7: 7: Clause 4, page 4, line 18, at end insert— ““( ) A licence cannot be issu...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1539 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord said that there was concern outside and that that concern had been expressed to the J...
Lord Patten | 696 c1541-2 (Link to this contribution) I was not able to be here during the week when the Bill had its Second Reading, and this is my first...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1543 (Link to this contribution) This amendment would not prevent that. The noble Lord and I disagree about whether human embryos sho...
Lord Winston | 696 c1542-3 (Link to this contribution) I find it difficult to understand what the noble Lord, Lord Alton, is saying. I have huge sympathy w...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1542 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for that intervention. There is a huge amount of altruism involved i...
Lord Winston | 696 c1542 (Link to this contribution) No commercial money went into the development of in vitro fertilisation, one of the technologies tha...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1542 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Patten, for his intervention. He brings to our debates great e...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 696 c1545-6 (Link to this contribution) Since 1990 the HFEA has issued licences for the creation and the use of embryos in research. These l...
Earl Howe | 696 c1544 (Link to this contribution) It may assist the Committee to learn that a briefing I received this morning from the HFEA gave me t...
Lord Patel | 696 c1543-4 (Link to this contribution) My professional friend the noble Lord, Lord Winston, speaks with much more experience than I. I spea...
Lord Patten | 696 c1547-8 (Link to this contribution) I am concerned that there is quite a statistical gap between the figure given by the noble Lord of t...
Lord Winston | 696 c1548 (Link to this contribution) That is a curious piece of procedure. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Alton, was pointing out that...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1548 (Link to this contribution) I understand that procedurally I have to give way to someone else before they can intervene. I am ve...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1546-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to everyone who has participated in the debate this evening. I shall return to this is...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1547 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend may well be right, and if he is not a biologist I am certainly in no position to be ...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 696 c1547 (Link to this contribution) I am not a biologist, but I am given to understand that if you have a sybarite embryo from which you...
Lord Patel | 696 c1548 (Link to this contribution) I stand merely to comment on the statement made by my noble friend Lord Alton about mitochondria. Of...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1548 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, because that demonstrates that both figures are in the world of rea...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1548-9 (Link to this contribution) I understand that point, which demonstrates again the need for a body that can properly evaluate the...
Lord Elton | 696 c1498-9 (Link to this contribution) Somewhat surprisingly, it may be appropriate to speak now to Amendment No. 2A, which has been tabled...
Baroness O'Cathain | 696 c1510 (Link to this contribution) What is the process here? I referred to the fact that the grouping is so wide and that these are not...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 696 c1500 (Link to this contribution) My comments on the amendment will be brief. The future makes it possible to create eggs or sperm fro...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1500-3 (Link to this contribution) It would be surprising if Members of the Committee were not dazzled by the scientific acumen of nobl...
Baroness O'Cathain | 696 c1503-4 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Alton, in showing concern about the groupings in the Bill. I feel ...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 696 c1504-6 (Link to this contribution) As it appears that we are now discussing this whole group of amendments, it is appropriate that I sh...
Lord Brennan | 696 c1506 (Link to this contribution) I share your Lordships’ sense of trepidation as I begin my remarks, but we must assuage it with the ...
Earl Howe | 696 c1506-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall comment briefly on Amendment No. 5 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Patel. It is with som...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 696 c1509-10 (Link to this contribution) This has been an excellent and hugely well informed debate and I am sure that it will be the first o...
Lord Winston | 696 c1499-500 (Link to this contribution) I rise briefly to support the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Patel. I declare an interest ...
Lord Patel | 696 c1516 (Link to this contribution) I shall be happy to do that, particularly about the final point the Minister made about cells. I was...
Lord Winston | 696 c1516 (Link to this contribution) I am still unclear about the response to Amendments Nos. 1 and 2 of the noble Lord, Lord Patel. Sure...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 696 c1516 (Link to this contribution) I note the deep concern expressed by noble Lords. The Government are seeking only to ensure that the...
Lord Elton | 696 c1511 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness leaves that important point, does she accept that there may be grounds for...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 696 c1511-5 (Link to this contribution) I understand the reservation and, perhaps, fears expressed by the noble Lord, but the fact that matt...
Lord Tordoff | 696 c1510 (Link to this contribution) It is not proper for me to intervene, but this is Committee stage and, as I understand it, there is ...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 696 c1510-1 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Deputy Chairman for that intervention. I intend to respond now to all the ...
Lord Harries of Pentregarth | 696 c1522-3 (Link to this contribution) I was not able to speak at Second Reading, so it is appropriate at this stage to declare an interest...
Lord Patel | 696 c1523-6 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for taking more of your Lordships’ time. The noble Lord is quite right: I said at Second...
Baroness Neuberger | 696 c1526-7 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Patel, made a very strong argument as to why the amendments of the noble Lord, ...
Lord Tordoff | 696 c1518 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, Lord Alton, will also be speaking to Amendment No. 6A, I should draw the Committe...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1518 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 6: 6: Clause 4, page 4, leave out line 11 The noble Lord said: I am grateful ...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 696 c1518 (Link to this contribution) Amendments Nos. 8, 19 and 20 are now in a separate group.
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1518-22 (Link to this contribution) My apologies. They are not ungrouped on the list that I have been given. I am grateful for that clar...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 696 c1517 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay. It is important th...
Lord Patel | 696 c1517-8 (Link to this contribution) I respect the views expressed by my noble friend Lord Alton, the noble Lords, Lord Elton and Lord Br...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 696 c1518 (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 4: 4: Clause 3, page 3, leave out line 24 ...
Lord Patten | 696 c1554-5 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the amendment argued by my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay and my noble frie...
Lord Patel | 696 c1555 (Link to this contribution) I have much sympathy with what noble Lords have said. My professional friend, the noble Lord, Lord W...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 696 c1549-51 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 8: 8: Clause 4, page 4, leave out line 35 The noble and learned Lord said: Th...
Viscount Ullswater | 696 c1551 (Link to this contribution) I must advise your Lordships that if this amendment is agreed to, I will be unable to call Amendment...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 696 c1551-3 (Link to this contribution) I do not need to add a great deal to what my noble and learned friend has said about the purpose for...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1553 (Link to this contribution) I have a brief question for the noble Lord, who has made a hugely important point. Given his own exp...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 696 c1553 (Link to this contribution) It is too soon for me to express an answer on that. I intend to keep in touch with the scientists, a...
Lord Winston | 696 c1553-4 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, raises an important issue with his amendment. I draw the at...
Lord Harries of Pentregarth | 696 c1554 (Link to this contribution) The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, and the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, raise crucial points. In l...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 696 c1554 (Link to this contribution) Does my noble and right reverend friend believe that it is right, if the report in today’s Times is ...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 696 c1555-6 (Link to this contribution) I, too, feel uncomfortable about the definition in new Section 4A(5)(e), which refers to ““such … th...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 696 c1563 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. In doing so, I suggest that the Committee stage begin ag...
Earl Howe | 696 c1560 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Patel, speaks as though my amendment would ban all sorts of scientific experime...
Lord Patel | 696 c1560 (Link to this contribution) I was merely giving an example.
Earl Howe | 696 c1556-8 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 19 and 20 in this group, which I have tabled for the very reason se...
Lord Patel | 696 c1558-60 (Link to this contribution) The amendment has serious implications for several current forms of research. As for how much of a m...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 696 c1561-3 (Link to this contribution) The spectrum of human animal embryo research is broad. It extends from animals created to contain on...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 696 c1563 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for his response to the amendment. I understood that the various ...
Lord Winston | 696 c1560-1 (Link to this contribution) It is the concern about any part of a cell that is at issue here. I would put it much more strongly ...
Earl Howe | 696 c1561 (Link to this contribution) I would not for a minute disagree with the noble Lord in anything that he has said.
Lord Harries of Pentregarth | 696 c1544 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure where the noble Lord, Lord Alton, gets his figure of 2 million embryos, if I remember ...
Lord Elton | 696 c1515 (Link to this contribution) I could not quite follow the Minister there. Is she saying that it is proposed that this shall be th...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 696 c1515-6 (Link to this contribution) We have proposed that the definition of ““human cell”” should include cell lines. I would therefore ...
Baroness Tonge | 696 c1507-8 (Link to this contribution) I speak with some trepidation and amusement: likening this place to paradise was a pleasant thought ...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 696 c1516-7 (Link to this contribution) It may be of interest to recollect that the Joint Committee that examined the draft Bill was faced w...
Lord Winston | 696 c1543 (Link to this contribution) Whether one uses for this research embryos that look non-viable or embryos that look much more viabl...
Subjects
Fertility Human embryo experiments Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority Ethics Parents Medicine Research Stem cells Human-animal hybrid embryos
Legislation
Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill (HL) 2007-08
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk