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Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [HL]

I find it difficult to understand what the noble Lord, Lord Alton, is saying. I have huge sympathy with his moral purpose, but I cannot agree with it because in vitro fertilisation at present results in large numbers of human embryos being wasted. They are literally thrown away. If they are not to be used for the treatment of infertile couples, the only alternative for them is to be used in research that might further that process in future. That is axiomatic. Listening to the noble Lord, I am reminded that in my own laboratory a remarkable experiment has been done by one of my colleagues, Ellen Poon. She is one of my post-doctoral research workers and has been working on genes that direct differentiation in completely surprising fashions. Her work would not have arisen without the use of embryonic material, under licence, of course. Most of the embryos that she has been using are defunct. They would not be regarded as being suitable for transfer on the grounds of their morphological appearance. Under the microscope they look completely dead or inactive and are not undergoing cell growth. We are about to publish a paper. We have not yet got it approved by a journal, but I think it will be accepted because it is a good piece of experimental work by her—my contribution was minimal. When we take cells from these embryos, we can get stem cells that express in quite a surprising way exactly the genes that are wanted. Basic research does not necessarily arrive at foregone conclusions. One does not know where the exciting things may develop. If Ellen is right—and I have watched her work very carefully—using effectively non-viable embryos surprisingly might give rise to stem cells. This kind of amendment would prevent that, which would be a pity.