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Benefits Simplification

Indeed. Over the years, failure or inadequacy of performance in IT systems have caused horrendous heartache and serious disruption in the Department's ability to function. That has been a major issue in the Child Support Agency over the past few years. For many years, what was known as NIRS2—the national insurance recording system—could not tell people who were due to retire how much they were entitled to. A number of projects have also been abandoned. Interestingly, at least the contracting basis for the CSA system was changed, with the Department contracting to rent a system that worked. When the system did not work, the Department did not pay anything and since it never worked the Department never paid anything. Previously when Departments bought systems, they had to fork out for people to come and put them right when they did not work. Departments have got a bit smarter with how they deal with IT systems, but although the current IT systems have never worked as well, that is not a difficult achievement, given the history. In this day and age, some 60 per cent. of the population have performed a transaction online. That figure is increasing all the time, and it is totally erroneous to say that claimants are incapable of using the internet. They might have a financial inability to acquire it, but then we need to consider other access points. Telecommunications, the internet and online transactions are the future, and it is nonsense to say otherwise. However, that brings additional hazards and consequences, which I hope the Minister will pick up, although I will leave it at that—I am conscious of time and others want to speak. The Department has had a number of successes. They have all been relatively small-scale, but the creation of the benefit simplification unit nevertheless indicates a change of focus. Its staff is still too small, but at least the issue is back on the agenda. I understand that announcements about significant further work on simplification will be made in the new year, which is welcome. Much of the work done by the Pension Service on pension credit has been great. A single point of contact to deal with council tax benefit, housing benefit and other matters has been established. Some of the deregulation in relation to occupational pension schemes, which was proposed by the benefit simplification unit, is good. The local housing allowance is a major simplification. Sadly—returning to the legacy issue—people move on to the new system only when their circumstances change. Two systems will therefore be running for who knows how long, but there we are. It has escaped public notice that from next April people will not be required to produce their final wage slip when they leave work and move on to benefit. Trying to track down the final salary payment is a horrendous task for those who deal with claimants. Benefit used to be held up until that payment appeared. Whatever the cause, such as reluctant employers, it created enormous difficulty out of all proportion. I am glad that the Government have abandoned that requirement. The Select Committee had a lot of discussion about whether complexity is inevitable in a world in which individuals have different circumstances and lives. It is fair to say that there was some disagreement. I think that it is inevitable. There is an eternal tension between universal and means-tested, and contributory and non-contributory benefits, and in finding the right balance. Norway has a relatively uniform system, but my goodness what a cost of living it has—it is extortionate. There are always pluses and minuses. We put forward two additional recommendations for consideration. One is the concept mentioned by Fraud—sorry, Freud; a Freudian slip—of a single working-age benefit. There is an air of utopia about that—the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose) will probably say a lot about it. But there is potential, and the embryo of an idea, which might give us the simplicity that we want. There are all sorts of problems with introducing it—there will be arguments about winners and losers and so on—but it is an idea. As to the other recommendation for consideration, we reflected on the success—first in analysis, then in presentation of solutions and then in public acceptance—of the Turner commission on pensions, and suggested that perhaps it was time for a welfare commission. Beveridge assessed what sort of society we would have post-war, and what sort of social security system we wanted for that society. There has been no real consideration of the fundamentals since 1945—it is 60-odd years since Beveridge published his report. There are serious grounds for going back to basic principles, and saying, ““This is the society, labour market and mobility—or lack of it—that we have. What sort of benefit system do we need that allows that society to function but that also removes all barriers and disincentives to people to work?”” We are firmly of the view—I evangelise about this—that this country has enough people with sufficient credibility, academic rigour and intelligence to staff a commission such as the Turner commission. They could take two, three or four years—I am not bothered—but they would present for public debate and to Parliament a possible model for where we will be in 10, 15 or 20 years' time. I repeat: this Department affects about 25 million people and has a £120 billion budget, which represents the largest slice of Government expenditure. We are duty bound to try to simplify it as much as possible.