---

Climate Change Bill [HL]

There is an important issue on this. I do not like phrases such as ““giving a lead””, ““showing an example”” or ““sending a message”” because they are slightly political clichés which are flavour of the month. However, if we set an example by including this provision, we can look firmly in the face those people we are telling not to chop down trees. It is difficult to say to people in poorer countries which do not have their own airlines, ““Don’t chop down your trees, but we will go on flying to your beach on an easyJet holiday to sit and look at it””. Technology will solve these problems. We are going to be able to find technical methods of driving motor cars and producing power stations that will not produce carbon dioxide. We have to challenge the world to be as technologically brilliant as we know it can be. However, Ministers have accepted that we must use a bit of stick and carrot. We cannot do other than keep this provision in. I agree with the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Soley. No one is saying anything very different—it is just a question of degree—but we ought to keep this in because it is at least a start. The next cliché concerns acorns and oaks, but the noble Lord knows what I mean.