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House of Lords Bill [HL]

I support the thrust of the noble Baroness’s amendment. I suggest to her that my noble friend Lord Strathclyde is an ideal person to sit on the committee. He made a very interesting speech which made me think how much we still miss the late Earl Russell. He would have been an excellent person to have on the committee. Indeed, I think his comments on this Bill would have been quite interesting too and perhaps different from those of the rest of his party in many ways. What the noble Baroness sets out, I think, is right. Thought needs to be given to this. I came forward with the idea of a senate but, as the noble Lord, Lord Richard, rightly reminds us, of course the Senate in Canada is appointed. Having been to Canada and America, it is interesting to see the difference with which the Senates are regarded in both countries as a result of that, including the powers given to a second chamber. On the powers, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Haworth, ““Do not for one moment believe that when we have a 100 per cent elected Chamber that there will be primacy of the House of Commons””. Can you imagine the noble Lord, Lord Haworth, in his former incarnation as the MP for Stratford-upon-Avon, going to his constituents in Stratford and then to Newport, saying, ““Please elect me, there is actually nothing I can do for you; you might want me to oppose the Government but I’m not going to because I am not allowed to””. No one will get any votes on that basis. The only way you will get votes is to canvass and say, ““The reason I want to be elected is because I want to stand up to those people in the other place””.