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Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

I asked that question because there is a basic weakness in the whole concept of the orders in the Bill. To be found guilty of an offence very often makes the child more likely to reoffend, not less likely. We all know what children are like and, if they are found guilty, very often they come back and do it again. That is our experience of children and a lasting experience in the criminal justice system. Many years ago I was on the visiting committee of a borstal. Borstals had very high aims and did a lot of very good youth work while people were in them, but the reoffending rate was enormous; only 11 per cent at that time did not reoffend. It simply did not work. I learnt at that time that to be found guilty does not necessarily make you less likely to offend again. The menu of possibilities that the court may impose under the Bill contains many measures that one would hope might be taken regarding a child without them being found guilty of an offence—but in this context they are guilty of an offence. There is a basic problem in how to meet the Government’s aspirations through the order. The reparation motion is excellent and works better than most things, but again it applies only because you are guilty of an offence and you have to do it. In thinking about all this, we have to realise that unless we can find a way of getting children to do some of these things without being found guilty of an offence, we will not get terribly far. I would have liked to have said that in the previous debate but I had to go to a meeting and knew I could not be in the Chamber for the whole thing, so I did not speak. We have a basic weakness in our thinking in England and Wales about this issue.